1 00:00:07,046 --> 00:00:10,946 >> Good morning everybody. 2 00:00:11,286 --> 00:00:17,946 And for those who don't know me, I'm Robert Mace, I'm Deputy Executive Administrator here 3 00:00:17,946 --> 00:00:21,816 at the Texas Water Development Board who run the Water Science & Conservation group here. 4 00:00:22,566 --> 00:00:28,916 Thank you all for being here and showing interest in providing comments 5 00:00:28,916 --> 00:00:32,096 or perhaps just looking and listening what other people say 6 00:00:32,096 --> 00:00:34,786 about implementation of House Bill 30. 7 00:00:36,716 --> 00:00:40,056 Just briefly, we've got to-- I guess, 8 00:00:40,056 --> 00:00:43,966 if anybody here that's TWDB staff or my staff could stand up. 9 00:00:44,046 --> 00:00:45,666 We've got a number of folks here. 10 00:00:46,326 --> 00:00:48,196 And you're going to hear from John Meyer. 11 00:00:49,046 --> 00:00:52,326 So, we have a number folks here, they're going to be taking notes, listening. 12 00:00:52,326 --> 00:00:54,716 We've got somebody from legal here. 13 00:00:56,236 --> 00:01:00,906 So, a very interesting here which you have to say, of course, in this solicitation, 14 00:01:00,956 --> 00:01:04,896 we had pointed out some specific things we are looking to hear on. 15 00:01:04,896 --> 00:01:09,496 You're also going to hear about some key questions by John Meyer but ultimately, 16 00:01:09,496 --> 00:01:14,976 it's open for any comments you have about the implementation that we're going to go 17 00:01:14,976 --> 00:01:16,546 through in putting this bill together. 18 00:01:17,266 --> 00:01:22,256 Also, we're please to have with us one of our Board Members, Director Kathleen Jackson. 19 00:01:22,696 --> 00:01:24,376 Miss Jackson, would you like to say something? 20 00:01:27,886 --> 00:01:28,936 >> Thank you Robert. 21 00:01:28,936 --> 00:01:30,746 I really appreciate everybody being here. 22 00:01:30,746 --> 00:01:32,686 And wow, what a great turnout. 23 00:01:33,006 --> 00:01:35,616 The stakeholder process is extremely important. 24 00:01:36,116 --> 00:01:40,496 We're really pleased that the legislator has tasked us 25 00:01:40,496 --> 00:01:43,336 with studying the brackish aquifers across Texas. 26 00:01:43,406 --> 00:01:52,056 And we think that there is amazing opportunities moving forward not just with brackish desal. 27 00:01:52,056 --> 00:01:56,186 but with many other strategies to make sure that we're developing water for Texas. 28 00:01:56,186 --> 00:01:57,306 I'm here in listening mode. 29 00:01:57,306 --> 00:02:01,496 I know that Bech already said he could be here as well, of course, from the quorum standpoint, 30 00:02:01,986 --> 00:02:05,136 two of us can't be on the same place at the same time. 31 00:02:05,476 --> 00:02:09,396 So, I'm here representing the Board and really just listening to thoughts 32 00:02:09,396 --> 00:02:11,226 and ideas which I think is so important. 33 00:02:11,496 --> 00:02:16,016 This is, I think, really a great opportunity because it's early on in the process. 34 00:02:16,016 --> 00:02:19,266 And then, I know that as we move forward, we're going to be continuing to ask 35 00:02:19,266 --> 00:02:21,576 for stakeholder input as we move forward. 36 00:02:21,576 --> 00:02:23,866 So, I just want to appreciate everybody being here, 37 00:02:24,146 --> 00:02:28,666 and bringing with you your thoughts and ideas. 38 00:02:29,246 --> 00:02:32,106 >> I'm sure many of you followed House Bill 30 39 00:02:32,106 --> 00:02:34,776 in its different permutations as it went through session. 40 00:02:35,486 --> 00:02:40,766 Of course, we're here today to talk about how it finally passed and broadly, 41 00:02:40,766 --> 00:02:45,116 what it represents is a science study of looking 42 00:02:45,216 --> 00:02:50,446 at the Board designating brackish groundwater production zones. 43 00:02:51,176 --> 00:02:55,466 And, there's a lot of science, arguably pure science, involved there, 44 00:02:55,926 --> 00:03:00,436 but there's also some policy questions that are wrapped up in this bill, you know, for example, 45 00:03:00,736 --> 00:03:06,466 impacts on resources that are above or perhaps lateral to groundwater production zones 46 00:03:06,816 --> 00:03:09,526 that we're really looking for some feedback from you all. 47 00:03:09,526 --> 00:03:13,796 And John shortly is going to provide an overview of what's in the bill, 48 00:03:14,006 --> 00:03:18,596 and kind of where we're looking to get forward with the work process. 49 00:03:19,036 --> 00:03:24,366 We do have out on the street now request for qualifications for what we call phase one 50 00:03:24,366 --> 00:03:29,576 of the studies as well as phase two of the studies, that phase one has 51 00:03:29,576 --> 00:03:32,956 to be done before we go on to the next session, and then phase two 52 00:03:33,636 --> 00:03:35,576 at some point a little bit later. 53 00:03:35,646 --> 00:03:37,396 John will discuss those deadlines. 54 00:03:37,886 --> 00:03:42,266 Ideally, we would have waited until we have this meeting before we put those RFQs out, 55 00:03:42,266 --> 00:03:43,666 but time is of the essence. 56 00:03:43,666 --> 00:03:46,916 We have some very short deadlines, legislative deadlines. 57 00:03:47,376 --> 00:03:50,496 One thing I do I want to assure you though, is with the contracted work, 58 00:03:50,626 --> 00:03:52,916 that work is focused on the science. 59 00:03:53,266 --> 00:03:58,256 And any of the designations or recommendations of designations are going to come 60 00:03:58,256 --> 00:04:04,016 from agency staff and specifically the executive administrator when it goes to the Board 61 00:04:04,096 --> 00:04:08,266 for a designation decision, at some point, next year. 62 00:04:08,986 --> 00:04:10,956 So, hopefully the fact, the request 63 00:04:10,956 --> 00:04:13,846 for qualifications went out, it didn't cause anybody concern. 64 00:04:15,006 --> 00:04:19,386 There's still, as Director Jackson noted, plenty of opportunities for stakeholder input. 65 00:04:20,166 --> 00:04:25,476 We tried to create several ways for you all to provide feedback, you know, 66 00:04:25,866 --> 00:04:29,016 there's still time to do written commentary. 67 00:04:29,016 --> 00:04:33,966 And we have a deadline of-- was it the 30th or the 31st, 30th, Friday? 68 00:04:34,156 --> 00:04:36,526 >> Yeah, October 31st, Friday. 69 00:04:36,526 --> 00:04:41,526 >> For this Friday, let's just going to kind of get focused for people 70 00:04:41,526 --> 00:04:43,916 to send us comments so we can start processing them. 71 00:04:43,916 --> 00:04:47,716 But, really, any point during this process, don't hesitate to reach 72 00:04:47,716 --> 00:04:50,176 out to us, and let us know what you think. 73 00:04:50,766 --> 00:04:53,906 Also, as Director Jackson eluded, there are opportunities 74 00:04:53,906 --> 00:04:56,316 for stakeholder involvement going forward. 75 00:04:56,806 --> 00:05:02,076 We anticipate the consultants as well as internal studies 76 00:05:02,076 --> 00:05:04,096 that we're doing with staff, go forward. 77 00:05:04,636 --> 00:05:10,836 Once the data is collected then we would have a discussion with stakeholders on potential areas 78 00:05:10,836 --> 00:05:17,156 to look at closer for brackish groundwater production zone designation. 79 00:05:18,296 --> 00:05:24,756 When you came in and signed in, we gave you all some comment sheets. 80 00:05:25,276 --> 00:05:29,736 And since we've got such a big crowd here today, what we're asking is for you to-- 81 00:05:29,736 --> 00:05:33,476 if you want to get up and say something verbal, we're going to pass around a microphone. 82 00:05:34,316 --> 00:05:38,236 Please fill that out and we'll have somebody come up the aisle 83 00:05:38,236 --> 00:05:41,006 at some point and collect the sheets. 84 00:05:41,446 --> 00:05:47,166 If you hear something somebody is saying, you're like, "Dang it, now I want to make a comment," 85 00:05:47,166 --> 00:05:49,936 then fill it out very quickly and give it to us, 86 00:05:49,936 --> 00:05:53,066 and we'll make sure you get your moment in the limelight. 87 00:05:53,896 --> 00:05:57,176 Show us a note that these proceedings are being recorded. 88 00:05:57,876 --> 00:06:01,476 Then, we also have folks taking notes as well. 89 00:06:01,536 --> 00:06:07,256 So, first step on the agenda then, well, second up on the agenda, I was first, 90 00:06:07,886 --> 00:06:12,196 is a brief presentation on House Bill 30 from John Meyer. 91 00:06:12,316 --> 00:06:17,556 And John is our technical lead in working on this project. 92 00:06:17,756 --> 00:06:17,996 John? 93 00:06:25,736 --> 00:06:26,956 >> Well, thank you all for coming today. 94 00:06:27,126 --> 00:06:30,596 I'm glad the weather cleared up a little bit so we had safe travel here. 95 00:06:30,686 --> 00:06:33,056 You know, we had quite a rainstorm here in Austin this weekend. 96 00:06:33,136 --> 00:06:38,606 What I want to talk to you today is kind of what House Bill 30 contains and how we're going 97 00:06:38,606 --> 00:06:42,526 to begin to implement this particular, you know, legislation within the Water Development Board. 98 00:06:43,256 --> 00:06:46,706 So, House Bill 30 goes ahead and directs the Board 99 00:06:46,706 --> 00:06:51,686 to map brackish groundwater production zones across the state, all the major, minor aquifers. 100 00:06:52,266 --> 00:06:55,686 We have to go ahead and put up all these information 101 00:06:55,686 --> 00:06:58,356 into a report that is due to the legislator. 102 00:06:59,016 --> 00:07:03,886 Every even numbered year starting-- the next report is due December 1st 2016. 103 00:07:04,526 --> 00:07:10,136 Within that legislation, it's specified that four aquifers have to be mapped and complete 104 00:07:10,606 --> 00:07:15,266 by the report next year, which is about real tight timeframe that Robert mentioned for us 105 00:07:15,266 --> 00:07:18,816 to get the SoQ's out for us to get this information contracted 106 00:07:18,816 --> 00:07:19,926 out and back to the Board? 107 00:07:20,436 --> 00:07:25,066 So, those four aquifers are the Gulf Coast, the Carrizo-Wilcox specifically 108 00:07:25,066 --> 00:07:29,486 between the Colorado River and the Rio Grande, the Blaine and then the Rustler aquifer. 109 00:07:30,186 --> 00:07:34,896 And then the remaining aquifers, we're going to go ahead, get those mapped by December 1st, 110 00:07:34,896 --> 00:07:38,466 2022 which is also specified in the legislation. 111 00:07:39,256 --> 00:07:43,206 And specifically within the House Bill 30 and we've got a copy of the bill, you know, 112 00:07:43,206 --> 00:07:47,456 at the front desk if you haven't seen the most latest signed version of it. 113 00:07:47,456 --> 00:07:52,856 A House Bill 30 indicates that the Board has to identify and designate local 114 00:07:52,856 --> 00:07:57,496 or regional brackish groundwater production zones and areas of the state with moderate 115 00:07:57,496 --> 00:08:01,886 to high availability and productivity of brackish groundwater that can be used 116 00:08:01,886 --> 00:08:05,266 to reduce the use of fresh groundwater and that. 117 00:08:05,436 --> 00:08:09,116 And then, there's some very specific place where we can designate these zones. 118 00:08:10,106 --> 00:08:12,936 These zones have to be separated by hydrogeologic barriers, 119 00:08:13,516 --> 00:08:17,506 sufficient to prevent significant impact, and that significant impact is something we're going 120 00:08:17,506 --> 00:08:22,416 to talk about today, to water availability or water quality 121 00:08:23,016 --> 00:08:25,496 in areas of the same or other aquifers. 122 00:08:27,026 --> 00:08:31,946 Subdivisions of aquifers or geologic strata that have an average total dissolved solids level 123 00:08:31,946 --> 00:08:35,936 of 1000 milligrams per liter or less at a time of designation. 124 00:08:36,326 --> 00:08:39,376 And then, there's also some exclusion in where we can't designate zones 125 00:08:39,376 --> 00:08:42,506 and I'll mention those a little bit later here in the presentation. 126 00:08:43,086 --> 00:08:48,616 So, this is all going to kind of build upon the BRACS Program which stands 127 00:08:48,616 --> 00:08:53,356 for Brackish Resources Aquifer Characterization System that we begun in 2009. 128 00:08:54,026 --> 00:08:55,996 So, we've mapped a few aquifers across the state. 129 00:08:55,996 --> 00:09:00,656 And we're going to be folding that information into this current legislation. 130 00:09:01,286 --> 00:09:04,166 Our objective is to map in a very sufficient detail, 131 00:09:04,676 --> 00:09:07,466 the brackish groundwater resources of each major, minor aquifer. 132 00:09:08,066 --> 00:09:10,196 We collect and load a lot of information, you know, 133 00:09:10,196 --> 00:09:12,546 a custom database called the BRACS database. 134 00:09:14,126 --> 00:09:16,766 It's very similar to the groundwater database design, 135 00:09:16,766 --> 00:09:19,146 but it's able to hold all the additional types 136 00:09:19,146 --> 00:09:21,466 of information we need to kind of do our studies. 137 00:09:22,286 --> 00:09:26,366 And then, we maintain a collection of well reports and geophysical well logs in order 138 00:09:26,366 --> 00:09:30,326 for us to kind of look at that that those deeper brackish sections of the aquifers. 139 00:09:31,096 --> 00:09:34,126 And then, one of things that the Board has always done is make all this information 140 00:09:34,126 --> 00:09:38,876 available, you know, to the public, both on our web site, or if you need some of the really, 141 00:09:38,876 --> 00:09:42,476 really large file sizes of the geophysical logs, you can get in touch with us 142 00:09:42,476 --> 00:09:44,166 and we can get that information out to you. 143 00:09:45,996 --> 00:09:50,156 So, the salinity classification that we used within the Board, 144 00:09:50,206 --> 00:09:53,526 zero to 1000 milligrams per liter is considered fresh. 145 00:09:54,386 --> 00:09:58,136 The brackish portion, we call it slight saline and moderately saline. 146 00:09:58,746 --> 00:10:01,976 That's either 1 to 3000, or 3000 to 10,000. 147 00:10:02,046 --> 00:10:06,016 And then in our studies, we also go ahead and map the very saline zone 148 00:10:06,016 --> 00:10:08,846 which is 10,000 all the way to 35,000. 149 00:10:09,276 --> 00:10:12,636 And for our reference, 35,000 is approximately equal to seawater. 150 00:10:14,386 --> 00:10:19,996 So our approach in kind of conducting and implementing this legislation is today, 151 00:10:19,996 --> 00:10:21,676 we're holding the initial stakeholder meeting. 152 00:10:22,256 --> 00:10:25,186 And as Robert mentioned, there's going to be plenty of opportunity during the course 153 00:10:25,186 --> 00:10:29,396 of the individual studies as well as this process, you know, over stakeholder input. 154 00:10:30,156 --> 00:10:34,806 Our objective is to map the entire brackish groundwater resource for each aquifer. 155 00:10:35,116 --> 00:10:38,246 So we really want to map the whole aquifer and then we will subdivide that part 156 00:10:38,246 --> 00:10:42,986 into this brackish groundwater production zones, yeah, according to the legislation. 157 00:10:43,776 --> 00:10:48,466 Once that's done, we'll propose potential production areas. 158 00:10:48,736 --> 00:10:53,176 Now, we use that term different than the brackish groundwater production zones 159 00:10:53,236 --> 00:10:57,056 because the actual Board has to go ahead and make that recommendation. 160 00:10:57,896 --> 00:11:01,206 So from the science standpoint, we're going to take a look 161 00:11:01,206 --> 00:11:03,446 at these potential production areas in each aquifer. 162 00:11:04,066 --> 00:11:06,576 Have a stakeholder meeting to talk about those things. 163 00:11:06,576 --> 00:11:11,306 We're going to prioritize those areas within each of the aquifers for further study. 164 00:11:12,166 --> 00:11:16,256 We'll then do the impact analysis on the 30 and 50 year pumping requirements. 165 00:11:17,036 --> 00:11:22,906 Then, we will propose these brackish groundwater production zones to our executive administrator. 166 00:11:23,646 --> 00:11:29,276 And then, we will present the executive administrator's recommendations to the Board. 167 00:11:29,336 --> 00:11:32,316 This first set of aquifers, that's going to happen next fall. 168 00:11:33,156 --> 00:11:37,116 And then we're going to present all the study findings in this biennial seawater 169 00:11:37,116 --> 00:11:39,646 and brackish groundwater report that's due to the legislature. 170 00:11:39,646 --> 00:11:45,786 So, I'll go through a whole series of maps with a bunch of aquifers that are 171 00:11:45,786 --> 00:11:49,416 on each map that have similar objectives. 172 00:11:49,416 --> 00:11:54,706 As Robert mentioned, we put out an SoQ, Statement of Qualifications. 173 00:11:54,706 --> 00:11:57,426 That's going to be due November 6th of this fall. 174 00:11:57,426 --> 00:12:01,686 This is for the 2016 contracts which will be the Blaine, 175 00:12:01,686 --> 00:12:04,276 Carizzo-Wilcox, Gulf Coast and Rustler aquifers. 176 00:12:05,846 --> 00:12:08,326 We also had a little money leftover from the legislator. 177 00:12:08,876 --> 00:12:13,106 So, we're also going to be doing three more aquifers with this round of funding that's going 178 00:12:13,106 --> 00:12:15,936 to be the Blossom, the Nacatoch and the Trinity. 179 00:12:15,936 --> 00:12:21,066 These are going to be due in August 2017 because we don't actually have a date specified 180 00:12:21,066 --> 00:12:22,736 on legislation for when these are due. 181 00:12:23,316 --> 00:12:26,616 So we're going to defer this to 2017 because we have to use 182 00:12:26,616 --> 00:12:28,366 up all the money by that point in time. 183 00:12:30,676 --> 00:12:34,626 The remaining aquifers across the state are going to be studied by Board staff. 184 00:12:35,196 --> 00:12:37,116 And we've got six and a half people that are going 185 00:12:37,116 --> 00:12:39,796 to be working specifically on this project. 186 00:12:39,796 --> 00:12:44,486 And we will probably organizing these aquifers in teams of two staff per aquifer 187 00:12:44,486 --> 00:12:46,376 so we'll be doing three studies concurrently. 188 00:12:47,436 --> 00:12:50,846 So you can take a look at the list of aquifers, I won't name each one. 189 00:12:53,146 --> 00:12:55,296 We've also got four aquifers across the state. 190 00:12:55,766 --> 00:12:57,246 And from the data that we have at this point, 191 00:12:57,246 --> 00:13:00,716 we don't have any significant brackish groundwater within it. 192 00:13:01,336 --> 00:13:06,726 So we don't propose to do studies on these aquifers, however, if within the course of time 193 00:13:06,726 --> 00:13:11,906 if we find additional information out there, we may go ahead and schedule this for study. 194 00:13:13,736 --> 00:13:18,126 These aquifers are the Igneous in West Texas, the Marathon, 195 00:13:18,456 --> 00:13:22,346 the Marble Falls which can barely kind of see in the center part of the state 196 00:13:22,346 --> 00:13:24,926 around the Llano Uplift and then the Rita Blanca. 197 00:13:26,516 --> 00:13:30,986 And then we do have a number of aquifers where we do have significant use 198 00:13:30,986 --> 00:13:34,506 of brackish groundwater in parts of these aquifers. 199 00:13:35,116 --> 00:13:38,006 And the legislation specifically indicates 200 00:13:38,006 --> 00:13:43,286 that we can't designate brackish groundwater production zones in areas 201 00:13:43,286 --> 00:13:47,466 where there is also significant brackish groundwater being used at this point in time. 202 00:13:47,936 --> 00:13:53,326 And so especially in West Texas, we got the Hueco-Mesilla Bolsons, the West Texas Bolsons, 203 00:13:54,166 --> 00:13:58,326 the Seymour Aquifer, parts of the Ogallala Aquifer, 204 00:13:58,566 --> 00:14:01,566 the Edwards-Trinity High Plain and then the Blossom Aquifer. 205 00:14:01,566 --> 00:14:07,206 So we're going to be taking a look at these aquifers very carefully to determine, you know, 206 00:14:07,206 --> 00:14:13,656 if we do need to designate zones in parcel them or maybe, we're going to defer that post-2022. 207 00:14:16,346 --> 00:14:23,286 And then we've got four GCDs across the State in which the legislation specifically indicates 208 00:14:23,636 --> 00:14:26,316 that we can't designate brackish groundwater production zones. 209 00:14:26,926 --> 00:14:30,866 So within the Gulf Coast Aquifer, we've got the Fort Bend 210 00:14:30,866 --> 00:14:33,406 and the Harris-Galveston Coastal Subsidence Districts. 211 00:14:33,996 --> 00:14:38,886 So when we study the Gulf coast, we're going to map the entire Gulf Coast Aquifer with respect 212 00:14:38,886 --> 00:14:40,246 to the brackish groundwater resources. 213 00:14:40,646 --> 00:14:43,626 But we can actually designate brackish groundwater production zones 214 00:14:43,926 --> 00:14:45,826 within the boundaries of those two districts. 215 00:14:46,536 --> 00:14:51,466 Also with respect to the Edwards Aquifer, the Balcones Fault Zone portion of that, 216 00:14:52,026 --> 00:14:54,856 we've got two GCDs, the Edwards Aquifer Authority 217 00:14:55,266 --> 00:14:58,736 and then the Barton Springs/Edwards Aquifer Conservation District. 218 00:14:59,006 --> 00:15:03,976 We can't designate any brackish groundwater production zones within those areas as well. 219 00:15:03,976 --> 00:15:06,926 However, there are some areas that are outside of the district boundaries 220 00:15:07,436 --> 00:15:10,916 and there may be some areas that are down deep and maybe more saline, 221 00:15:11,346 --> 00:15:12,946 they would fall in within that range. 222 00:15:12,946 --> 00:15:17,166 So we've got to do some more like internally to figure it out, you know, exactly the conditions 223 00:15:17,166 --> 00:15:20,166 where we may want to conduct a study and work with those districts on that. 224 00:15:20,166 --> 00:15:25,156 So at this point in time, we'll kind of get in to the questions. 225 00:15:25,676 --> 00:15:27,916 Robert do you want to kind of emcee this or? 226 00:15:34,416 --> 00:15:36,096 Oh and that's the clicker. 227 00:15:38,076 --> 00:15:42,176 >> So, let me stress that we want to hear your comments regardless on what it is, you know, 228 00:15:42,176 --> 00:15:45,886 how you felt about that UT game, how the Yankees are doing, you know. 229 00:15:46,896 --> 00:15:51,016 But there are three questions that we've identified as staff that we're 230 00:15:51,016 --> 00:15:53,096 in particular looking for feedback on. 231 00:15:53,546 --> 00:15:57,266 Again we're scientists, we're good at, you know, looking at the well logs and mapping 232 00:15:57,266 --> 00:16:02,606 out the geology and making the estimates on the volumes of water of varying qualities. 233 00:16:03,156 --> 00:16:09,246 But there are some, lack of a better term, mushy terms in the bill that, you know, 234 00:16:09,246 --> 00:16:12,206 our Board is going to have to make a decision on and, you know, 235 00:16:12,206 --> 00:16:14,026 staff is going to have to advise the Board. 236 00:16:14,576 --> 00:16:20,076 And so, you know, before we make a decision, we want to hear your thoughts. 237 00:16:20,316 --> 00:16:22,696 One of those key terms, I'm not going to read that paragraph 238 00:16:22,696 --> 00:16:25,626 but one of the key terms is "significant impact". 239 00:16:26,416 --> 00:16:30,656 And so, you know, this legislation is looking to define groundwater, 240 00:16:31,586 --> 00:16:33,216 brackish groundwater production zones. 241 00:16:33,816 --> 00:16:39,856 And one of the requirements is that they're separated by hydrogeologic barriers sufficient 242 00:16:39,856 --> 00:16:43,046 to prevent significant impacts to water variability, 243 00:16:43,046 --> 00:16:46,246 water quality in any area the same or other aquifers. 244 00:16:46,976 --> 00:16:51,156 So significant, we're looking for some feedback on that. 245 00:16:51,386 --> 00:16:57,576 A one hand, maybe one foot of water level decline through a confining layer 246 00:16:57,896 --> 00:17:01,256 into a fresh water system could be considered significant. 247 00:17:01,256 --> 00:17:04,516 One person might be 10 foot to another person. 248 00:17:05,186 --> 00:17:12,796 So we're looking for some feedback there, how we should define that, what that number should be, 249 00:17:12,796 --> 00:17:14,396 what do you consider significant. 250 00:17:19,116 --> 00:17:25,956 Also, we're looking for separated by hydrologic barriers sufficient 251 00:17:25,956 --> 00:17:27,776 to prevent significant impacts. 252 00:17:27,776 --> 00:17:31,356 And so, what those hydrologic barriers mean? 253 00:17:31,766 --> 00:17:38,746 Obviously, a physical barrier like a, you know, a clay or a shale above a brackish layer 254 00:17:39,296 --> 00:17:45,156 that separates that brackish layer from a fresh water above, clearly a hydrogeologic barrier. 255 00:17:45,836 --> 00:17:48,926 Perhaps laterally, you've got a sandstone aquifer, 256 00:17:48,926 --> 00:17:52,246 you got brackish-- here's a fault, a barrier fault. 257 00:17:52,626 --> 00:17:54,666 And on the other side, you've got fresh 258 00:17:54,666 --> 00:17:56,786 so I think that's probably clearly hydrologic barrier. 259 00:17:57,846 --> 00:18:01,596 Is distance enough to be a hydrologic barrier? 260 00:18:01,596 --> 00:18:06,416 In other words, you've got sandstone, you've got brackish down here, you got fresh over here, 261 00:18:06,886 --> 00:18:10,546 can you pump over here and have minimal impacts on the fresh 262 00:18:10,686 --> 00:18:13,036 and for that to be considered a hydrogeologic barrier? 263 00:18:13,716 --> 00:18:17,616 That's a little more hydrogeologically exoteric than significant impacts. 264 00:18:17,616 --> 00:18:22,026 So maybe we'll hear from our hydrogeologic friends out there. 265 00:18:23,806 --> 00:18:27,796 And then significant source, so if-- 266 00:18:27,796 --> 00:18:33,556 to a certain degree, we've kind of already made some demarcation as you heard from John 267 00:18:33,556 --> 00:18:39,966 that if folks are already producing water from a brackish groundwater resource, 268 00:18:40,496 --> 00:18:43,526 then that would take that off the table as a designated 269 00:18:43,526 --> 00:18:45,746 and as a brackish groundwater production zone. 270 00:18:46,306 --> 00:18:50,116 A good example of that is the Bone Spring-Victorio Peak, 271 00:18:50,256 --> 00:18:52,226 that aquifer is completely brackish. 272 00:18:52,766 --> 00:18:55,066 There's to the tune of what? 273 00:18:55,066 --> 00:18:58,726 Seventy thousand, 80,000 acre feet a year pulled from that system. 274 00:18:59,336 --> 00:19:00,676 That sounds significant. 275 00:19:00,676 --> 00:19:03,406 That sounds like a significant source of brackish water to me. 276 00:19:04,306 --> 00:19:07,346 But where is the lower limit on that? 277 00:19:07,656 --> 00:19:14,706 You know, is it enough for a few farmers to have windmill, water for their cattle. 278 00:19:14,976 --> 00:19:16,806 Is that a significant source? 279 00:19:16,806 --> 00:19:21,586 Is it something higher than that or even is it something lower than that? 280 00:19:22,706 --> 00:19:26,376 So those are the three key questions that we're looking for feedback on. 281 00:19:26,526 --> 00:19:30,626 But again, you know, any thoughts you have, we do want to hear. 282 00:19:30,626 --> 00:19:35,506 It doesn't mean that we've identified all the issues that we need to hear about. 283 00:19:36,236 --> 00:19:39,806 And truly, we haven't made any decisions on this. 284 00:19:39,806 --> 00:19:44,916 We really do want to hear from stakeholders on this as we go forward. 285 00:19:45,546 --> 00:19:52,756 I should also note that, yeah, we're seeking input at this point, but I'm not going to say 286 00:19:52,756 --> 00:19:55,506 when exactly we'll make a decision on this. 287 00:19:55,506 --> 00:20:00,976 And it could be postponed awhile as the studies go forward. 288 00:20:01,786 --> 00:20:06,736 And really ultimately, you know, as an agency, we don't have to make a decision on these things 289 00:20:06,736 --> 00:20:09,496 until we take it to the Board for approval. 290 00:20:10,866 --> 00:20:14,076 So, as far as meeting format is concerned, 291 00:20:14,256 --> 00:20:17,976 what they want to stress is this is not a role-making process. 292 00:20:17,976 --> 00:20:21,686 You know, so if it's a rule-making process, I just have to seat here and say thank you 293 00:20:21,686 --> 00:20:23,036 for your comment, everything you said. 294 00:20:23,096 --> 00:20:28,496 So there can be a little bit of back and forth, particularly if you have questions. 295 00:20:29,036 --> 00:20:32,696 We don't want to spar with anybody on a comment they made. 296 00:20:32,696 --> 00:20:38,056 Your comment is your comment, we respect that, but we are open to taking questions. 297 00:20:38,156 --> 00:20:41,406 And sometimes, the best comments can come in a question format, 298 00:20:42,006 --> 00:20:44,476 especially if it's a question we haven't considered before. 299 00:20:45,566 --> 00:20:49,076 So this is more informal along those lines in terms 300 00:20:49,076 --> 00:20:51,206 of us being able to harvest ideas and thoughts. 301 00:20:52,286 --> 00:20:56,556 I don't know if you want to pass or whoever wants to speak. 302 00:20:57,236 --> 00:20:58,726 I guess who's going to pick them up? 303 00:20:58,726 --> 00:20:59,736 Erica and Sanjeev [assumed spelling]. 304 00:21:00,976 --> 00:21:05,356 Got a lot of folks here and so who wants to speak? 305 00:21:05,356 --> 00:21:07,116 Kind of gives me an indication how much time-- 306 00:21:08,206 --> 00:21:10,806 looks like only Mary Saws [assumed spelling] so she gets the hour and-- 307 00:21:11,516 --> 00:21:14,216 [ Laughter ] 308 00:21:14,716 --> 00:21:21,616 We'll make sure we give everybody an opportunity to speak if they want to speak. 309 00:21:21,616 --> 00:21:25,416 I also want to note that obviously, we have a board member here today. 310 00:21:25,416 --> 00:21:30,836 The chairman can't be here because it would have to be a posted meeting, that would be a quorum. 311 00:21:31,596 --> 00:21:35,376 And so he passes his regrets but Kathleen's here to-- 312 00:21:35,456 --> 00:21:38,156 with ears wide open to hear everything you'll have to say. 313 00:21:38,996 --> 00:21:42,996 The only thing I would say is if you make a verbal comment, if you're so moved, 314 00:21:42,996 --> 00:21:45,286 we would encourage you to submit in a written comment. 315 00:21:45,396 --> 00:21:48,566 That helps us a lot and that, you know, 316 00:21:48,566 --> 00:21:52,066 we get it in your words rather than taking it from notes. 317 00:21:52,716 --> 00:21:53,696 We are recording this. 318 00:21:53,696 --> 00:22:01,506 I noted earlier but, yeah, you might want to be more effusive in your comment later on. 319 00:22:01,506 --> 00:22:06,156 So please, go ahead and send in written comments if you so choose. 320 00:22:06,826 --> 00:22:12,606 And then, the other thing I wanted to stress before we go into taking comments and I guess, 321 00:22:12,606 --> 00:22:17,516 we do have a microphone so I'll call of a name and-- how many we have there Sanjeev? 322 00:22:18,186 --> 00:22:18,376 >> Two. 323 00:22:18,486 --> 00:22:25,936 >> Two? There's a lot of lurkers in the room. 324 00:22:26,026 --> 00:22:32,946 Is that-- yeah, this bill at this point is just asking the Board to make these designations. 325 00:22:32,946 --> 00:22:36,846 And at this point, there is no regulatory requirements 326 00:22:36,846 --> 00:22:39,136 or strings attached to this designation. 327 00:22:39,286 --> 00:22:43,716 It doesn't mean there's not going to be in the future but I just want to stress that that 328 00:22:43,716 --> 00:22:47,476 at this point, the Board is being asked to make these designations. 329 00:22:48,386 --> 00:22:53,406 The first few of them will happen before the end of next year, before next session. 330 00:22:54,866 --> 00:22:56,456 So Mary? 331 00:23:04,286 --> 00:23:08,706 >> Robert, I know you were surprised that I would have something to say [laughter]. 332 00:23:09,096 --> 00:23:11,066 I saw everybody just fall out off their chairs. 333 00:23:11,716 --> 00:23:20,726 I wanted to chat a little bit with you about the significant source of water supply 334 00:23:20,726 --> 00:23:23,716 for municipal, domestic or agricultural purposes. 335 00:23:24,426 --> 00:23:31,706 I noticed as you mentioned, the map showed some demarcations that you've already made. 336 00:23:32,146 --> 00:23:36,116 And it sounded in your follow-up comment that perhaps those were made based 337 00:23:36,116 --> 00:23:38,796 on volume of water that's being used. 338 00:23:39,036 --> 00:23:40,876 >> Mm-hmm. 339 00:23:42,136 --> 00:23:47,666 >> Now, it seems like during the legislative session, of course, at that time, 340 00:23:47,666 --> 00:23:50,066 a lot of the bills had regulatory impacts. 341 00:23:50,396 --> 00:24:06,036 There was some concern by groundwater districts, scarcely populated but who's constituents 342 00:24:06,036 --> 00:24:11,936 or land owners, well owners only used brackish water 343 00:24:12,356 --> 00:24:14,486 because that's really all that was available. 344 00:24:15,476 --> 00:24:17,646 But it wouldn't be a large volume. 345 00:24:18,296 --> 00:24:22,126 Is there any thought to talking about that? 346 00:24:22,226 --> 00:24:23,586 Working on that issue? 347 00:24:25,066 --> 00:24:32,256 >> Well, you're making a comment to bring it up, I would encourage groundwater districts 348 00:24:32,296 --> 00:24:40,696 or other local entities or locals that have concerns to let us know in writing ideally 349 00:24:40,696 --> 00:24:46,366 with some information on supporting the concern. 350 00:24:49,036 --> 00:24:53,206 >> And so, really when you guys started thinking about it, you were just thinking in terms 351 00:24:53,206 --> 00:24:57,766 of areas where a lot of volume of brackish was being used? 352 00:24:58,016 --> 00:24:58,596 >> Correct. 353 00:24:58,596 --> 00:25:01,616 And that's, yeah, I can't throw out a number. 354 00:25:01,966 --> 00:25:02,106 >> No. 355 00:25:02,236 --> 00:25:05,886 >> It was just clearly like for example, Bone spring Victorio Peak clearly 356 00:25:06,816 --> 00:25:11,606 that in our mind couldn't be designated because of the appreciable amount 357 00:25:11,766 --> 00:25:13,706 of use for agricultural purposes. 358 00:25:14,306 --> 00:25:14,626 >> Yeah. 359 00:25:15,106 --> 00:25:20,566 >> It gets more challenging as that relative amount of pumping comes down. 360 00:25:21,576 --> 00:25:27,466 Another reason that we've take in some aquifers off the table upfront is we have a very 361 00:25:27,466 --> 00:25:30,326 ambitious schedule with limited resources. 362 00:25:30,326 --> 00:25:35,136 And so those that, you know, if an aquifer is all fresh, we don't need to look at it. 363 00:25:35,136 --> 00:25:36,676 So, we took those off the table. 364 00:25:37,136 --> 00:25:43,266 And those that already have appreciable use, we took those off the table just to reduce the-- 365 00:25:43,396 --> 00:25:47,026 for good reason but also to reduce the amount of work that we have to do whether 366 00:25:47,026 --> 00:25:49,536 with our contractors or with internal resources. 367 00:25:49,706 --> 00:25:56,836 >> Right. And I think my second comment has to do with your comment that letting us all know 368 00:25:56,836 --> 00:25:59,716 that there's no regulatory impact to this at this point. 369 00:25:59,716 --> 00:26:09,586 And I'm assuming that everybody here followed the ins and outs of this and the legislation. 370 00:26:09,586 --> 00:26:16,216 And the focus of the earlier parts of the legislation or the earlier versions 371 00:26:16,216 --> 00:26:29,186 of the legislation were to perhaps lessen the regulatory burden in terms of production permits 372 00:26:29,956 --> 00:26:34,186 in ultimate groundwater production zones. 373 00:26:35,126 --> 00:26:41,286 And although it's true that this legislation doesn't mention that and this is not going 374 00:26:41,286 --> 00:26:47,656 to be regulatory, I think that we would be remiss if we pretended like that didn't exist 375 00:26:48,086 --> 00:26:54,516 because that's going, I think, going to inform the position that's going to be taken 376 00:26:54,516 --> 00:26:56,436 by a lot of the groundwater districts. 377 00:26:58,786 --> 00:27:07,096 Conceivably, if you had a groundwater production or brackish groundwater production zone 378 00:27:08,376 --> 00:27:13,236 in your groundwater district under some of these precursor bills, 379 00:27:13,666 --> 00:27:20,186 the groundwater districts authority to regulate it would be watered down. 380 00:27:20,476 --> 00:27:21,906 Ha ha! So to speak. 381 00:27:27,176 --> 00:27:31,416 >> We've got Paul Weatherby [assumed spelling] up next. 382 00:27:34,386 --> 00:27:36,436 You see, he's right there. 383 00:27:46,456 --> 00:27:49,186 >> Probably go not to sit down Robert, I can't do both here. 384 00:27:50,956 --> 00:27:55,566 Well anyway, thank you for the opportunity to make these comments. 385 00:27:56,156 --> 00:28:03,266 We were striving to try to contain the comments for today's issue to the issue at hand. 386 00:28:04,096 --> 00:28:08,446 But as she said it's kind of hard for us to realize what all we should bring up. 387 00:28:08,446 --> 00:28:13,206 But with the said, we've always, at Middle Pecos Groundwater District, 388 00:28:13,206 --> 00:28:20,956 has always supported the science, tried to use the science and at the same time, 389 00:28:21,646 --> 00:28:24,676 protect and reserve our water forever. 390 00:28:25,476 --> 00:28:30,526 I always have trouble trying to get in line with some 391 00:28:30,526 --> 00:28:34,966 of those thinking 30-year, 50-year supply, whatever. 392 00:28:35,356 --> 00:28:38,176 I expect us to have a million years of supply. 393 00:28:39,106 --> 00:28:44,306 Our permitting process is whether is 2 acre feet 394 00:28:44,306 --> 00:28:48,926 or 50,000 acre feet should be good for as long as it's needed. 395 00:28:49,546 --> 00:28:51,626 And we manage that water accordingly. 396 00:28:52,296 --> 00:28:57,306 So with that said, you notice in the bill when it came out, 397 00:28:58,106 --> 00:29:02,496 brackish groundwater is a potential new source for production. 398 00:29:02,496 --> 00:29:04,536 Well I don't know where they got the word new. 399 00:29:05,166 --> 00:29:09,526 In Pecos County, we've been producing it for hundreds of years 400 00:29:10,066 --> 00:29:13,786 from all the aquifers whether they're fresh or brackish. 401 00:29:14,446 --> 00:29:19,226 They came up with 1,000 TDS and that's fine. 402 00:29:19,316 --> 00:29:26,576 We've been drinking 1400, 1500 TDS for years which we consider fresh water. 403 00:29:27,276 --> 00:29:32,466 So I'm a little confused on how definite you all are going to apply that-- 404 00:29:32,926 --> 00:29:37,366 the science or whatever to an aquifer whenever varies. 405 00:29:37,796 --> 00:29:45,126 As we all know across the aquifer itself, it also varies as to the production 406 00:29:45,126 --> 00:29:51,736 of the aquifer along itself, we have real fresh water available. 407 00:29:51,846 --> 00:29:55,646 And if you over-pump this within a week with your irrigation, wells, 408 00:29:55,646 --> 00:29:58,036 et cetera, then it tends to turn brackish. 409 00:29:58,426 --> 00:30:00,666 Then it'll freshen up when you get off of it. 410 00:30:01,356 --> 00:30:08,906 You know, I don't know how you all are going to come about with that science to come 411 00:30:08,906 --> 00:30:14,766 in of not just our county but I'm here representing our county I don't know how you are 412 00:30:14,766 --> 00:30:19,046 going to come in and say, all right, this is going to be a brackish management zone. 413 00:30:20,136 --> 00:30:25,006 But today, it's fresh but, I don't know, it's just confusing. 414 00:30:26,256 --> 00:30:26,696 We-- 415 00:30:34,746 --> 00:30:40,666 We notice that on this immediate study that you all have to do is you have the Rustler. 416 00:30:41,906 --> 00:30:49,696 I assume you all are going to pinpoint up-- pin point at Rustler for this initial study. 417 00:30:50,656 --> 00:30:59,116 We know it's brackish all the way across but we also know which used extensively in the county. 418 00:30:59,906 --> 00:31:05,186 We ask for exemption status from the study et cetera in the beginning and that fell 419 00:31:05,186 --> 00:31:10,026 on deaf ears even though parts of Texas was, ours wasn't. 420 00:31:10,026 --> 00:31:14,576 We are one of the largest counties and we sure we have a lot 421 00:31:14,576 --> 00:31:17,076 of that Rustler Aquifer [inaudible] that's being utilized. 422 00:31:17,076 --> 00:31:22,936 And I hope during the study that the Water Development Board which we work with you all 423 00:31:22,936 --> 00:31:26,256 on a weekly, daily basis and your record will show that, 424 00:31:26,896 --> 00:31:31,806 that we hope that you all have the final finding that we can manage this water 425 00:31:31,806 --> 00:31:35,876 and make it available and still protected for future generations. 426 00:31:35,876 --> 00:31:43,266 With that, being established as a specific management zone covering hundreds and hundreds 427 00:31:43,266 --> 00:31:47,496 and hundreds of square miles of aquifer in Pecos County. 428 00:31:47,866 --> 00:31:52,176 And I won't get in the day, well, I'm scared of it might happen in he next 10 years 429 00:31:52,176 --> 00:31:59,956 if that is established as a management zone and it goes into where it's outside the regulation 430 00:31:59,956 --> 00:32:03,356 of a GCD but that's another story. 431 00:32:04,846 --> 00:32:11,426 The nonexempt wells as she mentioned, I mean, the exempt wells that she mentioned, 432 00:32:11,936 --> 00:32:14,756 we have submitted them, a 2 acre field. 433 00:32:14,756 --> 00:32:20,126 We have thousands of them in Pecos County, they're fresh and brackish on the same ranch. 434 00:32:21,066 --> 00:32:25,936 I want to continue in basis, they're brackish or fresh on the same area, same place. 435 00:32:25,936 --> 00:32:33,986 And I hope you all take that and I'm sure you will get with us on specific areas of use. 436 00:32:34,676 --> 00:32:40,796 And I don't know whether they addressed the DFC, now or they are not. 437 00:32:40,796 --> 00:32:44,606 I don't know if it's appropriate, but I know that if a management zone gets established 438 00:32:44,606 --> 00:32:49,966 by the state that if we can't continue our DFC process, 439 00:32:49,966 --> 00:32:53,566 we have to work around that zone although that's out the window, 440 00:32:53,876 --> 00:32:57,386 but throw the DFC thing out I guess. 441 00:32:58,546 --> 00:33:01,866 Our springs, we had 32 years ago. 442 00:33:02,386 --> 00:33:07,646 Now, we've just got very Pecos Springs, Santa Rosa come in, she's dried up. 443 00:33:07,726 --> 00:33:17,936 Diamond Y, Diamond Y Spring is primarily-- the Rustler Aquifer provides Diamond Y Spring. 444 00:33:17,936 --> 00:33:22,866 It's a federally protected with endangered species and stuff. 445 00:33:23,096 --> 00:33:29,086 If you take it out of the picture, well, it-- does the rest of Rustler-- 446 00:33:29,086 --> 00:33:30,586 that's part of the Rustler Aquifer. 447 00:33:30,686 --> 00:33:38,716 Yeah, I just don't understand right now and I hope that communicating with TWDB, you know, 448 00:33:38,716 --> 00:33:40,546 how this process is going to work its way 449 00:33:40,546 --> 00:33:47,216 through to further protect our springs or to continue to protect them. 450 00:33:47,636 --> 00:33:53,886 And the bill mentioned oil gas industry. 451 00:33:54,826 --> 00:33:57,936 Of course, we support that, you know, we do just like everybody else, 452 00:33:57,936 --> 00:34:00,206 90% of our tax money comes from there. 453 00:34:01,236 --> 00:34:06,816 But I know in other area where you're looking at brackish water sources, we have an enormous part 454 00:34:06,816 --> 00:34:14,936 of the county which is bigger that some counties in Texas that have water that is being used, 455 00:34:15,526 --> 00:34:23,546 that is not even in the Water Development Board database as designated aquifer. 456 00:34:24,816 --> 00:34:27,796 And it's an enormous amount of water. 457 00:34:27,846 --> 00:34:32,546 We've used the words alluvial water, most of is toward the Pecos River. 458 00:34:33,366 --> 00:34:39,236 We've called it the San Andres primarily, that's all field talk, what is kind of the formation, 459 00:34:39,236 --> 00:34:41,126 where it comes from, the San Andres. 460 00:34:42,226 --> 00:34:48,796 That water is virtually today flowing on the ground and has for years and we're working to-- 461 00:34:48,796 --> 00:34:55,416 we're actually working right now to contain that and utilize it for industrial municipal use. 462 00:34:56,536 --> 00:35:03,446 But-- I guess, it would be brackish because some of it is up to 30,000 TDS and some 463 00:35:03,446 --> 00:35:06,466 of it is not before a thousand or 6000 TDS. 464 00:35:07,036 --> 00:35:08,086 But where is it at? 465 00:35:08,086 --> 00:35:14,146 I guess, you all are going to study, just come out there and look, 466 00:35:14,146 --> 00:35:18,476 I don't know how are you going to do it because you don't have the science on that aquifer, 467 00:35:18,476 --> 00:35:23,436 it's 2000 feet down there, we know that from all field reports. 468 00:35:24,226 --> 00:35:32,126 It's 3 to 500 feet thick if you had lucky enough to get with BEG and find their records. 469 00:35:32,736 --> 00:35:35,866 To some places, it's not that thick. 470 00:35:35,866 --> 00:35:38,986 Some, it may be more, it's like the Capitan Reef, a lot of-- 471 00:35:38,986 --> 00:35:41,096 there's not a lot of information on it. 472 00:35:41,876 --> 00:35:46,366 So to go in and formally establish that as a management zone, 473 00:35:46,906 --> 00:35:54,336 I believe is a little preliminary to open it up to whatever is going to happen in the future. 474 00:35:54,936 --> 00:35:59,456 Also, there's injection wells being injected into these waters 475 00:35:59,456 --> 00:36:02,166 that you all are going to be studying. 476 00:36:02,656 --> 00:36:06,496 I'm not throwing rocks at anybody, I'm just saying that we have proven it and we're going 477 00:36:06,496 --> 00:36:14,476 to continue to prove that the-- whether it's commercial injection or private injection wells 478 00:36:14,476 --> 00:36:18,626 on leases that they've always been able to inject in to the San Andres 479 00:36:18,626 --> 00:36:21,346 because that is an oil and gas produce information but that's 480 00:36:21,346 --> 00:36:23,806 where there's a heck of a lot of brackish water also. 481 00:36:24,586 --> 00:36:27,626 It's shallower than the Ellenburger, Devonian, et cetera. 482 00:36:27,756 --> 00:36:35,606 It's up closer, It's assessable by the public or by land owner to utilize for any beneficial use 483 00:36:35,916 --> 00:36:37,656 if they want to treat it or whatever. 484 00:36:38,596 --> 00:36:43,556 But you got the oil and gas going in this end in a quarter of a mile away, 485 00:36:43,556 --> 00:36:46,776 you got to come out on a water well on this end. 486 00:36:46,776 --> 00:36:49,316 So we're trying to work through that. 487 00:36:49,316 --> 00:36:54,256 And that's going to take time so I'd hope that preliminary studies just don't blanket it 488 00:36:54,256 --> 00:36:58,276 out there as being an untapped, new, whatever you want to call it, 489 00:36:58,276 --> 00:37:02,566 water source for beneficial use when I can show you 490 00:37:02,566 --> 00:37:05,326 that we got problems going on with it right now. 491 00:37:06,076 --> 00:37:08,086 So that's where communication comes in. 492 00:37:09,426 --> 00:37:17,446 The week-- I've submitted a packet by email to everybody that I thought needed to see it. 493 00:37:17,446 --> 00:37:22,266 I'm not going to go over all the specifics in the packet but it does include some 494 00:37:22,266 --> 00:37:26,806 of you all science, TWDBs, I've include USGS science 495 00:37:27,376 --> 00:37:32,476 that it's funny how the more science you get turned in to you, 496 00:37:33,136 --> 00:37:35,756 the more different entities look at it. 497 00:37:35,756 --> 00:37:36,516 They can argue. 498 00:37:36,516 --> 00:37:38,016 Hydrologists argue. 499 00:37:38,926 --> 00:37:42,656 Groundwater water district managers argue. 500 00:37:42,946 --> 00:37:52,206 All I know is, is that we support the old say in Supreme Court. 501 00:37:52,206 --> 00:37:53,776 Local management is good. 502 00:37:54,486 --> 00:37:58,446 I hope that you all give the local groundwater districts not only us 503 00:37:58,446 --> 00:38:05,146 but across the state a definite play in this matter and not just get-- 504 00:38:05,256 --> 00:38:09,316 I don't guess it's fair to say this but I don't want to get politicked out. 505 00:38:10,096 --> 00:38:13,576 We want our staff, if we can back up what we're telling you, 506 00:38:13,576 --> 00:38:16,486 we want it to be used and recognized. 507 00:38:17,306 --> 00:38:23,236 And if there's a problem with it, we want to know, we want that communication gap open. 508 00:38:23,236 --> 00:38:32,376 There's been too much hard work done by everybody over the years to just kind 509 00:38:32,566 --> 00:38:38,936 of say man, this-- because I think this study is too much for you all to be due by 2016, 510 00:38:38,936 --> 00:38:41,536 I'm sorry you're tasked with that. 511 00:38:41,536 --> 00:38:45,456 Whereas, you can just say no, we can't do that right now, we got to work on it 512 00:38:45,456 --> 00:38:53,566 but I understand you need to save your job and your political positions, but I'll do stress 513 00:38:53,566 --> 00:38:59,686 that we're not scientists, we're not experts down there or anyone 514 00:38:59,686 --> 00:39:02,096 in groundwater districts, at least we're not. 515 00:39:03,006 --> 00:39:07,806 But we happen after living there three and four generations, we know our water. 516 00:39:08,516 --> 00:39:14,026 And before anything is definite, I hope we still continue to have strong input 517 00:39:14,026 --> 00:39:16,456 on what is brought out on the table. 518 00:39:17,586 --> 00:39:25,336 And I suppose that timeline unless it's continued to be, when did you say? 519 00:39:25,446 --> 00:39:27,426 >> In ultimate, there's-- we've got-- 520 00:39:27,426 --> 00:39:28,346 >> December or? 521 00:39:28,346 --> 00:39:29,896 >> Yeah December 1st the next year-- 522 00:39:30,276 --> 00:39:30,846 >> Right. 523 00:39:31,226 --> 00:39:37,906 >> For aquifers then we've got a timing of money issue with the next set of aquifers, 524 00:39:38,406 --> 00:39:41,256 and then we got to wrap everything up by 2022. 525 00:39:44,186 --> 00:39:48,196 Really appreciate your comments Paul and appreciate you coming this far 526 00:39:48,196 --> 00:39:50,406 out to share your thoughts with us. 527 00:39:50,746 --> 00:39:56,746 Your comments sparked off some things in my head so let me just put this out there, 528 00:39:56,746 --> 00:40:00,876 not only for you but for everybody in the audience. 529 00:40:01,246 --> 00:40:10,126 The kind of broadly how these studies are going to go is two phases, you know, 530 00:40:10,246 --> 00:40:14,836 whether it's in internal study that our staff is doing on these aquifers or if it's a contractor. 531 00:40:15,526 --> 00:40:18,126 The first phase is going to be a data collection phase 532 00:40:18,126 --> 00:40:20,056 of the available information that's out there. 533 00:40:20,136 --> 00:40:23,616 You know, some of what we're looking actually, a lot of what we're looking at, 534 00:40:23,616 --> 00:40:29,296 or well logs from the oil patch which really is the only data we have in some of these aquifers. 535 00:40:29,296 --> 00:40:33,376 And they go deep enough and we can interpret those logs and see what's going on 536 00:40:33,696 --> 00:40:36,016 or get a better sense of what's going on. 537 00:40:36,116 --> 00:40:41,026 So that's going to be the phase one, it's, what is the available information that's out there. 538 00:40:41,026 --> 00:40:45,466 And at that point, the consultants or our internal folks, 539 00:40:46,246 --> 00:40:50,906 if they're doing an internal study, we then have a stakeholder meeting to share 540 00:40:50,906 --> 00:40:56,856 with interested parties, here's what we found, here's what we think we know about the system, 541 00:40:57,556 --> 00:41:00,876 and these of the areas that look like could-- 542 00:41:00,956 --> 00:41:07,526 they could be areas to look at deeper as far as making a designation. 543 00:41:08,636 --> 00:41:13,456 And so, we'll, at that point, as the consultants or the scientists as well 544 00:41:13,456 --> 00:41:18,046 as us internally will get the feedback from that discussion. 545 00:41:18,336 --> 00:41:21,826 And then at that point, we'll direct our contractors 546 00:41:21,916 --> 00:41:24,306 in which areas to look at for a designation. 547 00:41:24,356 --> 00:41:28,246 Does that mean, you know, we're going to look at three or four identified areas, 548 00:41:28,246 --> 00:41:29,896 those three areas are going to be designated? 549 00:41:29,966 --> 00:41:33,206 No. It just means we're going to take a closer look at it because it could be-- 550 00:41:33,596 --> 00:41:36,196 when we started looking at how the system response hydraulically, 551 00:41:36,986 --> 00:41:38,356 that may take it off the table. 552 00:41:38,596 --> 00:41:43,076 You know, if it looks like if we pumped here, it's going to drain the fresh water up above, 553 00:41:43,326 --> 00:41:47,586 well that would take it off the table based on what the law says. 554 00:41:48,376 --> 00:41:54,446 After that second phase of the study is done, you know, staff will be working 555 00:41:54,636 --> 00:41:56,696 with our management and executive administrator 556 00:41:57,636 --> 00:41:59,946 since he will make a recommendation to the Board. 557 00:42:00,206 --> 00:42:05,276 And at that point, the plan is, is that will be kind of a standard Board process, 558 00:42:05,466 --> 00:42:12,756 public meeting, opportunities for public comments and as well as seen the kind 559 00:42:12,756 --> 00:42:17,936 of the report that comes out that will help inform staff's recommendation 560 00:42:17,936 --> 00:42:20,376 to the Board on designation. 561 00:42:21,376 --> 00:42:23,346 So, there will be plenty of opportunities. 562 00:42:23,346 --> 00:42:28,226 I think the fact that you've generated documents, the information you shared, 563 00:42:28,226 --> 00:42:30,746 that's valuable information for us. 564 00:42:30,746 --> 00:42:35,186 And so, you know, anybody out there that has information like that, you know, 565 00:42:35,186 --> 00:42:40,926 that helps us as staff as we're trying to formulate a recommendation to our Board. 566 00:42:42,516 --> 00:42:47,016 And then, you talked about desired future conditions and zones 567 00:42:47,176 --> 00:42:53,866 and House Bill 30 doesn't impact desired future conditions at this point, 568 00:42:53,866 --> 00:42:56,926 you can still have desired future conditions for brackish resources, 569 00:42:57,056 --> 00:43:00,436 I think perhaps that you're alluding to is what might happen in the future 570 00:43:01,046 --> 00:43:03,196 with these designated zones with the legislature. 571 00:43:03,196 --> 00:43:07,276 Of course, who knows but, that's something we'll just have to see. 572 00:43:08,116 --> 00:43:12,876 And then you also mentioned injection wells and those, you know, if a formation is being used 573 00:43:12,876 --> 00:43:16,546 for injection, that's off the table as far as a designation. 574 00:43:16,756 --> 00:43:22,406 And that is in the House Bill 30 and I think also for practical purposes, 575 00:43:22,406 --> 00:43:25,596 I can't imagine somebody want to desalt that water anyways. 576 00:43:25,596 --> 00:43:27,706 So, I think that would be off as well. 577 00:43:28,716 --> 00:43:30,356 What? You're laughing. 578 00:43:30,496 --> 00:43:31,626 Somebody desalting it [laughs]. 579 00:43:32,316 --> 00:43:34,386 So, I just put that out. 580 00:43:34,386 --> 00:43:38,166 There's additional information since we didn't touch on that when we talked about the bill. 581 00:43:38,466 --> 00:43:42,686 But, you know, I'm glad you've brought reporting for us, 582 00:43:42,726 --> 00:43:45,976 continue to share with us, and we'll continue to reach out. 583 00:43:48,086 --> 00:43:52,536 >> One thing or I won't give this microphone to somebody. 584 00:43:53,236 --> 00:43:56,766 I just urge everybody to comment good, bad, 585 00:43:56,766 --> 00:44:00,216 and ugly if you want to call it that in simple terms. 586 00:44:00,216 --> 00:44:00,776 >> We wanted it all. 587 00:44:01,086 --> 00:44:02,956 >> You know, I know you do. 588 00:44:03,066 --> 00:44:06,766 And I'm saying, I just urge everybody to put it out there. 589 00:44:06,766 --> 00:44:11,206 You know, you might make or represent it mad at you or something that's all right, 590 00:44:11,526 --> 00:44:12,866 you know, just get it all out there. 591 00:44:12,866 --> 00:44:14,116 She can get all one basket. 592 00:44:14,496 --> 00:44:20,756 >> Yeah because-- If a lot of folks have boots on the ground and we don't have 593 00:44:20,756 --> 00:44:22,216 that information, we need to hear it. 594 00:44:22,616 --> 00:44:30,856 So, we're going to go ahead and go in formal since we only got people that signed up. 595 00:44:30,906 --> 00:44:32,646 But if you didn't-- just say who you are. 596 00:44:32,646 --> 00:44:35,706 >> Yeah, is it Paul? 597 00:44:36,396 --> 00:44:36,786 >> Yup. 598 00:44:36,786 --> 00:44:45,076 >> Yeah, similar to-- and this may seem like logical questions but or comments but, 599 00:44:45,616 --> 00:44:52,516 we haul off one of the largest water disposable people in the state. 600 00:44:54,046 --> 00:44:58,016 And it seems odd to me, I mean, I love the study of-- 601 00:44:58,016 --> 00:45:05,556 and we need to study these brackish aquifers but we have more water that we're disposing off 602 00:45:05,946 --> 00:45:07,866 and all different types of water. 603 00:45:08,396 --> 00:45:12,016 So it's not just all trash water. 604 00:45:12,846 --> 00:45:21,796 And you're, you know, we're going to designate these production zones 605 00:45:21,796 --> 00:45:26,736 and they're producing it now, more water that has to be cleaned 606 00:45:27,586 --> 00:45:31,366 as somebody's brackish aquifers have to be cleaned as well. 607 00:45:31,526 --> 00:45:33,456 You don't want it running on the ground, 608 00:45:33,456 --> 00:45:36,726 you don't want your cattle drinking it, you don't want to drink it. 609 00:45:37,146 --> 00:45:40,636 Especially if you over pumped it like what he talked about, it will change. 610 00:45:40,796 --> 00:45:43,426 So that has to be monitored. 611 00:45:43,496 --> 00:45:46,606 A lot of money to process this water. 612 00:45:48,486 --> 00:45:55,246 But, we're producing more water and nobody wants it. 613 00:45:55,876 --> 00:46:04,776 And so we separate it, clean it, get the solids out of it, treat it, per total TDS, 614 00:46:04,776 --> 00:46:10,926 and then shove it down in one of these aquifers probably in some places in Texas for sure. 615 00:46:11,286 --> 00:46:19,906 So, the expense to produce it, they're doing it. 616 00:46:19,906 --> 00:46:28,926 So, we have a lot of water, we just don't take care of the water and we can clean the water. 617 00:46:29,746 --> 00:46:31,896 Somebody's got to buy it. 618 00:46:33,266 --> 00:46:36,286 So I think that's a big part of the issue. 619 00:46:37,196 --> 00:46:43,106 We know the water is there, it's always been there but nobody wants it until it's clean. 620 00:46:43,936 --> 00:46:44,886 Well, who's going to clean it? 621 00:46:45,416 --> 00:46:47,366 Well, we got to pay to clean it. 622 00:46:47,366 --> 00:46:53,426 It just seems we've all-- we've been kind of at this point for a long time. 623 00:46:54,196 --> 00:47:00,696 And I'm glad we're here to where we can talk about this out in the open. 624 00:47:00,696 --> 00:47:06,746 And it's not all companies taking all of our water and ripping everybody off for all. 625 00:47:07,686 --> 00:47:13,336 But, I wish there would be more discussion about clarifying that. 626 00:47:13,336 --> 00:47:16,686 When you say significant impact, that's pretty broad. 627 00:47:16,686 --> 00:47:19,396 Was that subterranean? 628 00:47:19,436 --> 00:47:20,596 Is it on the surface? 629 00:47:20,596 --> 00:47:22,046 Or where are we going to put these plants? 630 00:47:22,596 --> 00:47:24,316 Where are we going to store it? 631 00:47:24,316 --> 00:47:25,946 Who's going to pay for it? 632 00:47:26,706 --> 00:47:27,566 That's significant. 633 00:47:28,076 --> 00:47:33,466 I don't know, we got a lot of water, we just don't take care of it. 634 00:47:34,356 --> 00:47:35,616 >> Could you say who you are? 635 00:47:36,056 --> 00:47:37,026 >> Bradley Hart [assumed spelling]. 636 00:47:37,706 --> 00:47:38,336 >> Thank you Bradley. 637 00:47:38,666 --> 00:47:38,926 >> Thank you. 638 00:47:40,126 --> 00:47:41,046 >> Appreciate the comments. 639 00:47:41,266 --> 00:47:44,676 I should note that I'm a nodder so if I nod at you, it doesn't mean I necessarily agree 640 00:47:44,676 --> 00:47:46,916 with you, I just-- I'm hearing you [laughs]. 641 00:47:48,376 --> 00:47:51,756 So if you see me nod and go, "What did he just agree to?" 642 00:47:52,356 --> 00:47:53,676 Don't misread that. 643 00:47:54,986 --> 00:47:56,116 Don't be shy. 644 00:47:56,486 --> 00:48:00,846 OK, got someone over here. 645 00:48:01,666 --> 00:48:04,266 You brought up monitoring and Paul brought up monitoring. 646 00:48:04,266 --> 00:48:10,966 And something else he didn't mention is that part of the bill also has the Board 647 00:48:11,486 --> 00:48:19,846 when we make a designation to also provide recommendations on the monitoring 648 00:48:20,226 --> 00:48:25,346 that could be done if somebody went in to produce from that brackish groundwater zone 649 00:48:26,116 --> 00:48:33,536 to essentially, you know, prove up that the impacts are minimized. 650 00:48:34,656 --> 00:48:37,066 So that's also part of the bill. 651 00:48:39,736 --> 00:48:40,136 Greg. 652 00:48:40,136 --> 00:48:43,626 >> Greg Sengelmann with the Gonzales County Underground Water Conservation District. 653 00:48:44,226 --> 00:48:47,456 My question is a little bit about significant impact. 654 00:48:47,456 --> 00:48:52,896 I was wondering whether that was somewhat of got to be a moving target and I was just-- 655 00:48:52,976 --> 00:48:55,246 the way I was thinking of it was to give an example. 656 00:48:55,246 --> 00:49:02,976 So, lets just say you had an aquifer and its hydrologically connected, but you say, "OK, 657 00:49:03,276 --> 00:49:08,316 if here's a management zone, if you pump 50,000 acre feet in the brackish area, 658 00:49:09,226 --> 00:49:12,726 it's only going to cost 20 feet of extra drawdown 659 00:49:12,726 --> 00:49:15,566 in the fresh area and that's not significant. 660 00:49:15,806 --> 00:49:17,536 So we go far with that. 661 00:49:18,176 --> 00:49:24,406 But that's assuming what in the freshwater zone, what they're pumping now, what the DFC is, 662 00:49:24,406 --> 00:49:26,036 or what their future projected is? 663 00:49:26,086 --> 00:49:29,866 Because if you set that in it's a point in time, 664 00:49:31,406 --> 00:49:36,936 does that mean that that freshwater is static thing, you can't perm it anymore because then, 665 00:49:37,126 --> 00:49:44,426 with those two together, that drawdown then goes down deeper, 666 00:49:44,426 --> 00:49:46,396 you know what I'm saying, in the freshwater zone. 667 00:49:46,556 --> 00:49:50,626 So, I'm not sure how that's going to work, how's it going to-- 668 00:49:50,726 --> 00:49:54,556 it then seem like it can be a static number in that type of scenario. 669 00:49:55,746 --> 00:49:59,476 So that was sort of my question on how we would look at that. 670 00:49:59,476 --> 00:50:02,976 But I guess, just like he said, that's a future DFC question. 671 00:50:03,966 --> 00:50:09,056 If we wanted more pumpage, somebody came for a new permit, you would have to increase the DFC 672 00:50:09,056 --> 00:50:14,456 in the freshwater zone, of course, and that's going to draw that whole aquifer down even more. 673 00:50:15,606 --> 00:50:21,926 Although, yeah, you're right, the brackish project would still only contribute that much. 674 00:50:22,326 --> 00:50:27,896 Assuming we're monitoring it, that's the truth, that's what going to happen. 675 00:50:27,896 --> 00:50:31,696 I mean, we all know that it could cause more drawdown, it could cause less drawdown, 676 00:50:31,696 --> 00:50:34,826 we're just using models at the time. 677 00:50:34,826 --> 00:50:37,426 So, basically, that's my question is, 678 00:50:37,716 --> 00:50:44,886 I don't see that can be a static number in that type of situation there. 679 00:50:45,646 --> 00:50:50,356 >> OK. To be honest, nothing I've thought of, it's a good point. 680 00:50:50,736 --> 00:50:54,836 Yeah, it could be, as you mentioned, it could be the DFC, you know, what is the-- 681 00:50:54,836 --> 00:50:58,316 because we're supposed to evaluate these on-- 682 00:50:58,316 --> 00:51:01,346 and I look over to John so he can like stretch his leg out 683 00:51:01,346 --> 00:51:02,836 and kick me when I say something wrong. 684 00:51:02,836 --> 00:51:08,136 But, as I recall, 30 years and 50 years, we're looking at two different timeframes, 685 00:51:08,136 --> 00:51:12,536 so just shooting from the hip, you know, we could take a-- you brought a good point, 686 00:51:12,626 --> 00:51:15,016 what, you know, relative to what? 687 00:51:15,126 --> 00:51:16,436 Is it saturate thickness? 688 00:51:16,436 --> 00:51:19,296 Is it drawdown on the freshwater aquifer and what time? 689 00:51:19,916 --> 00:51:21,416 You know, shooting from the hip, it could be, you know, 690 00:51:21,416 --> 00:51:25,706 what is the anticipated DFC for 30 years out? 691 00:51:25,706 --> 00:51:27,116 What is it for 50 years out? 692 00:51:28,556 --> 00:51:35,476 And then comparing, you know, what that impact might be. 693 00:51:35,786 --> 00:51:36,256 Thank you. 694 00:51:42,746 --> 00:51:45,696 Everybody wants the fried chicken special at the cafeteria, I guess, 695 00:51:45,826 --> 00:51:48,756 because that's-- [laughter] any other? 696 00:51:48,756 --> 00:51:49,436 Don't be shy. 697 00:51:50,296 --> 00:51:51,346 Other comments? 698 00:51:52,056 --> 00:51:52,966 Questions? 699 00:51:59,726 --> 00:52:01,936 Going once-- Oh here we go. 700 00:52:01,976 --> 00:52:03,536 And we got another one up in the front too. 701 00:52:10,766 --> 00:52:12,016 >> Mary Saws. 702 00:52:12,896 --> 00:52:17,246 Do you anticipate doing any role-making on these particular definitions? 703 00:52:17,846 --> 00:52:27,886 If not, at what point will the stakeholders see what the definitions are, 704 00:52:27,966 --> 00:52:29,366 the working definitions? 705 00:52:30,006 --> 00:52:37,476 >> Traditionally, we-- the stakeholders are probably the same 706 00:52:37,476 --> 00:52:41,456 when it goes to the Board as a memo. 707 00:52:41,796 --> 00:52:44,416 And so at some point, that memo would be posted, 708 00:52:45,166 --> 00:52:49,346 staffs would send out a notice to everybody that it's posted. 709 00:52:49,346 --> 00:52:53,446 And then there would be the Board meeting. 710 00:52:53,986 --> 00:52:57,576 We've had internal debate over whether or not it requires role-making. 711 00:52:57,576 --> 00:53:00,526 We haven't quite settled on that yet. 712 00:53:01,046 --> 00:53:04,866 But if anybody has thoughts on that, we would be happy to receive those. 713 00:53:06,006 --> 00:53:13,226 I've got another question up here in the front, question or comment. 714 00:53:15,666 --> 00:53:19,226 >> Mr. Mace, it's Raymond Straub of Straub Corporation at Stanton, Texas. 715 00:53:19,676 --> 00:53:24,956 I would like to retouch on your comment about if, yeah, 716 00:53:25,586 --> 00:53:27,686 water-bearing unit is being injected to-- 717 00:53:27,686 --> 00:53:32,136 into from O&G sources that it will automatically remove it 718 00:53:32,136 --> 00:53:35,526 from your potential source aquifer list. 719 00:53:36,286 --> 00:53:43,726 The Capitan has some of that O&G injection into it as well as the San Andres or both of those, 720 00:53:43,966 --> 00:53:48,706 you can find significant sources of reasonably good quality water in those two. 721 00:53:48,706 --> 00:53:53,616 So, would that remove those two aquifers from potential source aquifer? 722 00:53:54,226 --> 00:54:01,206 >> Not necessarily, because I think it depends on where, so, you know, 723 00:54:01,206 --> 00:54:05,696 like the Dockum for example is large aquifer. 724 00:54:06,176 --> 00:54:09,796 If the injections happen over here, but there's no injection, you know, 725 00:54:09,956 --> 00:54:16,336 100 miles away down here, then this potentially could still be considered for designation. 726 00:54:17,366 --> 00:54:24,176 Also in, sorry, but also if, let's say, injection is occurring in the Wilcox 727 00:54:24,176 --> 00:54:30,006 but it's far deeper in the formation than where the brackish or the water of interest is. 728 00:54:30,006 --> 00:54:35,456 And so we have to be looking at, I think, the goal would be is to make sure 729 00:54:35,456 --> 00:54:40,976 that what gets produced is not producing water from the injecting. 730 00:54:41,436 --> 00:54:49,296 >> So it'd be more localized, not necessarily on a-- just a system more basis, 731 00:54:49,296 --> 00:54:52,716 it would be more relative to location, is that specific? 732 00:54:53,136 --> 00:54:54,546 >> Correct, that's what we're thinking. 733 00:54:54,946 --> 00:54:55,036 >> OK. 734 00:54:57,156 --> 00:55:03,056 >> My lawyer might get hold that language and tell us otherwise but we'll see. 735 00:55:11,126 --> 00:55:16,386 >> So that thus lead to-- this is Mary Saws again, that thus lead to another question. 736 00:55:16,546 --> 00:55:26,796 And that is, a lot of the legislation is written in terms of aquifers, 737 00:55:26,986 --> 00:55:32,526 but these zones don't have to be of a particular size. 738 00:55:32,526 --> 00:55:33,276 Isn't that right? 739 00:55:33,446 --> 00:55:33,916 I mean-- 740 00:55:34,646 --> 00:55:37,796 >> Yeah. It's a, you know, it could be regional, it could be local. 741 00:55:39,436 --> 00:55:40,346 Looking over at John. 742 00:55:40,906 --> 00:55:41,216 >> Right. 743 00:55:41,216 --> 00:55:41,976 >> John nods correct. 744 00:55:42,196 --> 00:55:44,196 [ Inaudible Remark ] 745 00:55:44,376 --> 00:55:51,196 >> And they could be designated by depth as well, is that what I'm hearing? 746 00:55:53,746 --> 00:55:58,676 >> I think depth is a component, I think it's going to be more of a-- 747 00:55:58,676 --> 00:56:05,916 sort of envision more of a especial designation that here's this area that could be designated. 748 00:56:05,916 --> 00:56:09,316 And then it'll be tied to a depth in the sense 749 00:56:09,316 --> 00:56:11,436 that there's a formation, it will be tacked on to. 750 00:56:11,436 --> 00:56:11,756 >> Got you. 751 00:56:12,216 --> 00:56:17,686 >> But there is a potential, since they use the word regional, 752 00:56:17,686 --> 00:56:24,256 that we could do a regional designation if there's a layer of an aquifer 753 00:56:24,406 --> 00:56:29,116 that looks regionally, you know, isolated or, you know, 754 00:56:29,356 --> 00:56:35,266 component has a good confining layer then that's also a possibility for us to designate. 755 00:56:41,446 --> 00:56:45,056 I should note that anything I say is subject to challenge so [laughs]. 756 00:56:45,736 --> 00:56:50,186 You don't like something I said, set me straight now or later. 757 00:56:50,386 --> 00:56:54,826 Any other-- Got another question upfront here. 758 00:57:02,836 --> 00:57:05,706 >> Once again it's Raymond Straub of Straub Corporation, Mr. Mace. 759 00:57:06,106 --> 00:57:12,146 The addition of other producing zones and I notice we have pretty well lined up, 760 00:57:12,706 --> 00:57:16,426 pretty much unusual suspects on water producing zones, 761 00:57:16,426 --> 00:57:24,036 but what about other deeper producing zones that contain high quality water than-- 762 00:57:24,036 --> 00:57:27,446 we do not have an account of at the moment? 763 00:57:27,446 --> 00:57:32,986 Is there a mechanism for adding these units at a later date or is there-- 764 00:57:32,986 --> 00:57:37,066 of these, will they be excluded from this brackish concept? 765 00:57:37,606 --> 00:57:45,536 >> I think if somebody comes to us and I think the comment is related to because there's a, 766 00:57:45,536 --> 00:57:50,646 like for example, South Texas, I have people come to me with, you know, really deep, 767 00:57:50,646 --> 00:57:54,796 you know, way below traditional we call traditional aquifers, 768 00:57:55,206 --> 00:57:58,376 coming up with brackish or even freshwater. 769 00:57:58,636 --> 00:58:04,556 I would say, we'd be open that someone come in into us if they've got, you know, data, 770 00:58:04,646 --> 00:58:08,006 enough data for us to consider designating it. 771 00:58:08,006 --> 00:58:13,296 But at this point, you know, we don't, in house, we don't have that information of that data 772 00:58:13,296 --> 00:58:17,606 and it tends to be the stuffs I've seen, it tends to be a single well. 773 00:58:17,726 --> 00:58:21,836 But if anybody has information, bring it to us and we'll take a look at it, 774 00:58:22,626 --> 00:58:25,796 visit with you and see what that entails. 775 00:58:26,436 --> 00:58:30,026 >> In the southern-- well in Brewster and Pecos County, 776 00:58:30,336 --> 00:58:34,326 potentially some of the [inaudible] systems may have 777 00:58:34,766 --> 00:58:39,796 where there's actually outcrops may have some relativity high quality water in those systems. 778 00:58:39,826 --> 00:58:42,576 But they would be-- I mean, they're not even been classified in, 779 00:58:42,576 --> 00:58:43,926 you know, in any of our current. 780 00:58:45,036 --> 00:58:50,746 >> And so, yeah, so again on that, you know, we have the major aquifers, 781 00:58:50,746 --> 00:58:54,186 we have the minor aquifers and then we have the mysterious other aquifers. 782 00:58:54,186 --> 00:59:02,796 And so, other aquifers which is a catch-all for those, you know, the little pockets, 783 00:59:02,796 --> 00:59:08,736 alluvial aquifers or other formations that, you know, can be important sources of supply 784 00:59:08,736 --> 00:59:14,646 for locals or could be, you know, future potential sources of supply. 785 00:59:15,496 --> 00:59:20,966 And so, again, I think, and if you have information, anybody has information 786 00:59:21,746 --> 00:59:25,146 or something like that, can bring the information you have to us and we'll take a look 787 00:59:25,146 --> 00:59:30,126 at it and consider, you know, building that into what we're doing for House Bill 30. 788 00:59:31,006 --> 00:59:32,916 >> So it's not a closed agenda. 789 00:59:32,916 --> 00:59:37,266 >> It's not a closed, it's not just restricted to what we listed as major 790 00:59:37,266 --> 00:59:38,836 and minor aquifers, let's say that. 791 00:59:39,046 --> 00:59:46,086 >> But that would be part of the 2022 or beyond prospects. 792 00:59:46,376 --> 00:59:54,376 >> Yes. I think ideally before 2022, I think it's arguable to whether or not the door closes, 793 00:59:54,376 --> 00:59:56,596 I kind of think the door closes at 2022. 794 00:59:56,596 --> 01:00:01,796 I may be wrong, but ideally we would make those designations before 2022. 795 01:00:04,086 --> 01:00:06,446 And the deadlines are ambitious. 796 01:00:06,446 --> 01:00:07,596 We think they're achievable. 797 01:00:08,306 --> 01:00:09,896 You know, we use the term. 798 01:00:09,896 --> 01:00:13,796 We have a brackish resource aquifer characterization system 799 01:00:13,796 --> 01:00:17,556 that we've been employing across the states so far. 800 01:00:18,116 --> 01:00:24,336 And we use the term BRACS light when we refer to these studies impart because, you know, 801 01:00:24,816 --> 01:00:28,786 we won't to do the full-blown BRACS analysis that we would normally do. 802 01:00:29,456 --> 01:00:35,186 And so, we do anticipate coming back in some cases after 2022 to-- 803 01:00:35,186 --> 01:00:41,856 don't necessarily revisit the designations but to fill in the gaps on the map and with the; 804 01:00:41,896 --> 01:00:46,186 purpose of providing information for folks looking at desalting brackish groundwater. 805 01:00:48,916 --> 01:00:51,716 >> This is Ty Edwards, Middle Pecos Groundwater Conservation District. 806 01:00:52,206 --> 01:00:55,456 Are you only going to look at brackish zones where's there's GCDs 807 01:00:55,866 --> 01:00:58,246 or all the counties off for covers? 808 01:00:58,246 --> 01:01:00,736 >> We're looking at everything, entire state. 809 01:01:10,396 --> 01:01:13,366 You got an order, every other ones, supposed to go to Mary so it's [laughter]. 810 01:01:15,856 --> 01:01:16,446 >> This is Mary. 811 01:01:17,046 --> 01:01:22,806 Quite a number of groundwater conversation districts have a wealth 812 01:01:22,866 --> 01:01:28,276 of water quality information that they've been gathering during the last couple of decades. 813 01:01:30,126 --> 01:01:33,656 Is that something that is in the BRACS' database? 814 01:01:34,146 --> 01:01:41,076 Is that something that groundwater districts should provide to you during this process? 815 01:01:41,606 --> 01:01:43,586 And will that be considered? 816 01:01:44,496 --> 01:01:51,166 >> The-- We do have staff that work with the groundwater database that work with districts 817 01:01:51,216 --> 01:01:55,276 to get their water level information as well as water quality information or database. 818 01:01:55,696 --> 01:02:00,986 And so, if that cooperation presently exists, then yes, 819 01:02:00,986 --> 01:02:03,306 it would be in the BRACS' database and considered. 820 01:02:03,976 --> 01:02:08,926 But if there's, you know, districts that have-- haven't cooperated with us in the past. 821 01:02:09,446 --> 01:02:13,006 And I don't mean that in a derogatory way just, you know, sharing data, 822 01:02:13,006 --> 01:02:17,316 and haven't shared data was us in the past, there's an opportunity to certainly to do that. 823 01:02:17,316 --> 01:02:19,786 We would love to have access to that information. 824 01:02:30,316 --> 01:02:31,826 >> Thank you. 825 01:02:32,116 --> 01:02:34,826 I'm John Bender [assumed spelling], I'm with the Texas Corn Producers. 826 01:02:35,626 --> 01:02:42,276 Could you review the points between now and December first next year 827 01:02:42,276 --> 01:02:46,946 in which you will be specifically seeking stakeholder input? 828 01:02:48,036 --> 01:02:49,086 >> So, there's today [laughs]. 829 01:02:52,106 --> 01:02:57,136 There's a, of course, anytime between now and the designation. 830 01:02:57,396 --> 01:02:59,846 You can send us letters, give us a call. 831 01:03:00,706 --> 01:03:05,536 But as far as the formal process is today, then there will be a stakeholder meeting 832 01:03:05,776 --> 01:03:10,276 after the consultants look at the available information 833 01:03:10,276 --> 01:03:12,216 on characterizing the brackish resource. 834 01:03:12,486 --> 01:03:19,206 Purpose of that meeting, it's going to be to share the information with stakeholders. 835 01:03:19,206 --> 01:03:23,996 And then also get some feedback on where we should or should not. 836 01:03:24,266 --> 01:03:28,716 And further investigate zones for potential designation. 837 01:03:30,336 --> 01:03:37,416 After that points, there's going to be a report that gets delivered. 838 01:03:37,556 --> 01:03:42,406 We do plan to make that available to stakeholders and the report 839 01:03:42,406 --> 01:03:43,916 that comes from the consultant firm. 840 01:03:43,916 --> 01:03:47,856 But at this point, we don't plan on having a stakeholder meeting to discuss that report. 841 01:03:48,556 --> 01:03:53,586 And then it will be the Board meeting that makes that designation. 842 01:03:54,296 --> 01:04:01,576 And so, there will be an opportunity for public comment at that Board meeting. 843 01:04:02,116 --> 01:04:09,436 >> Earlier, there was a question about you all arriving 844 01:04:09,436 --> 01:04:12,386 at definitions on these three questions. 845 01:04:12,606 --> 01:04:16,396 And you haven't decided yet whether that will be by role-making? 846 01:04:16,676 --> 01:04:25,426 If it's not done by role-making, if it's done by memo or some other means, 847 01:04:25,836 --> 01:04:32,056 will there be an opportunity to comment on you all's definitions 848 01:04:32,056 --> 01:04:37,226 on these three points before it's finally settled. 849 01:04:38,096 --> 01:04:44,036 >> There'll be an-- When the Board takes up the designations, there'll be an opportunity 850 01:04:44,036 --> 01:04:52,276 to address the Board about the designation and then, of course, you know, all these questions 851 01:04:52,276 --> 01:04:57,136 that are up on the Board very well could be part of that decision. 852 01:04:57,136 --> 01:05:03,646 So, there'll be opportunity to address the Board before they make a designation decision. 853 01:05:11,596 --> 01:05:12,916 >> Thank you. 854 01:05:22,536 --> 01:05:26,616 >> Who's the consulting firm that will make this report? 855 01:05:27,386 --> 01:05:28,756 >> Don't know. 856 01:05:28,806 --> 01:05:34,256 The individual studies will have a request for qualifications out on the street now 857 01:05:34,256 --> 01:05:41,846 so we won't know until early next year who the selected candidates are. 858 01:05:42,206 --> 01:05:45,516 And that will be taken back to the Board for approval. 859 01:05:46,136 --> 01:05:48,866 As far as the report that goes to the legislature, 860 01:05:48,866 --> 01:05:50,766 that will be something that we do internally. 861 01:05:51,416 --> 01:05:55,036 So, the Board will make the designations. 862 01:05:55,606 --> 01:06:01,286 And then, staff will take those designations, put it into or I guess, 863 01:06:01,286 --> 01:06:04,686 our biennial desalination report legislature. 864 01:06:05,616 --> 01:06:07,796 And then, take that back to our Board for approval 865 01:06:07,796 --> 01:06:09,886 because there's other things that go into that report. 866 01:06:11,056 --> 01:06:13,646 >> Well and what's the purpose for the designation? 867 01:06:14,626 --> 01:06:16,856 >> It's not stated in the statue. 868 01:06:19,626 --> 01:06:22,476 >> There's no purpose for that [laughter]. 869 01:06:30,966 --> 01:06:36,256 >> It's not unusual for, you know, for us to be asked to, you know, do, yeah, 870 01:06:36,396 --> 01:06:40,206 the designations for example, that's how it happened with groundwater management areas. 871 01:06:40,406 --> 01:06:47,406 And so, almost a very similar process and that it's impart defined by science. 872 01:06:47,406 --> 01:06:51,096 There's a few policy questions to address. 873 01:06:51,096 --> 01:06:53,726 And then, Board made the designations. 874 01:06:56,096 --> 01:06:57,426 >> Robert, Mary Saws again. 875 01:06:57,516 --> 01:07:03,096 It seems late on the definitions for the stakeholders to find 876 01:07:03,096 --> 01:07:08,386 out what definitions you are using at the Board meeting because, by that point, 877 01:07:09,166 --> 01:07:16,146 the time crunches going to be even greater so, at that point, even legitimate. 878 01:07:17,676 --> 01:07:20,956 Well, two things, at that point, it will be so late 879 01:07:20,956 --> 01:07:28,326 that legitimate comments practically speaking probably could not be accepted. 880 01:07:28,836 --> 01:07:33,356 And then the second is that the staff will have done lots of lots of work based 881 01:07:33,356 --> 01:07:35,316 on the definitions that they've come up with. 882 01:07:35,736 --> 01:07:41,426 So, that's another practical reason why the Board is not [inaudible]. 883 01:07:43,876 --> 01:07:47,626 I think this is-- OK. 884 01:07:47,816 --> 01:07:54,126 It seems like if the staff is going to apply those definitions after the consultants come 885 01:07:54,126 --> 01:07:57,036 up with the data that's available. 886 01:07:57,516 --> 01:08:04,486 Then perhaps, those definitions-- could those definitions be made available 887 01:08:04,786 --> 01:08:07,876 at the same time as the consultant's report? 888 01:08:09,406 --> 01:08:10,876 >> It's possible. 889 01:08:10,876 --> 01:08:14,096 The reason I hesitate to promise anything is I don't know which way, 890 01:08:14,326 --> 01:08:17,026 which direction those definitions are going to go. 891 01:08:17,266 --> 01:08:20,996 You know, they could go one direction for example, 892 01:08:20,996 --> 01:08:24,556 kind of uniformed definition across to all aquifers. 893 01:08:24,556 --> 01:08:30,056 And just throw it out there as an example, you know, the significant impact means it has, 894 01:08:30,526 --> 01:08:35,066 you know, whatever the impact of the brackish pumping is on the fresh water resources, 895 01:08:35,066 --> 01:08:38,156 it's less than 1% of the saturated thickness at 2030. 896 01:08:38,646 --> 01:08:40,316 I just made that up off top my head. 897 01:08:40,866 --> 01:08:41,926 Don't read anything into that. 898 01:08:42,506 --> 01:08:45,656 And that could be, you know, formally applied across all the aquifers. 899 01:08:45,656 --> 01:08:52,106 And so, you know, if we go down that path, that may be something that we could share. 900 01:08:52,726 --> 01:08:56,616 I would have to, of course, work with my managers, upper management to see 901 01:08:56,616 --> 01:08:59,046 if they're comfortable sharing that upfront. 902 01:08:59,486 --> 01:09:01,846 Another way it could go is it could be more aquifer-specific. 903 01:09:02,026 --> 01:09:08,896 Yeah, there may be, for example, again, I'm just pulling this out of the hat. 904 01:09:09,426 --> 01:09:18,376 It might be that there's a shallow windmill wells for ranchers that, you know, 905 01:09:18,376 --> 01:09:23,546 1% of the total saturated thickness causes them to go dry in which case then maybe, you know, 906 01:09:23,546 --> 01:09:30,176 whatever our significant impact is tailored to the aquifer, the specific aquifer. 907 01:09:31,076 --> 01:09:38,736 And so again, you know, that pushes the decision later in the process, you know, 908 01:09:39,016 --> 01:09:46,116 as staff we work with, executive administrator, in terms of coming up with a recommendation. 909 01:09:46,936 --> 01:09:51,446 So again, it just depends how quickly, you know, we can come up with a recommendation. 910 01:09:51,886 --> 01:09:55,706 The deadlines are pretty ambitious, so we don't have a lot of time 911 01:09:55,706 --> 01:09:58,976 to go to the Board with designations. 912 01:09:59,346 --> 01:10:03,216 >> And so, it's going to be pretty, pretty chop-chop. 913 01:10:03,216 --> 01:10:07,536 You know, I think ideally, we would have the report that comes out of the consultants, 914 01:10:07,596 --> 01:10:09,596 have a stateholder meeting there. 915 01:10:10,326 --> 01:10:14,586 But we're just not going to have a lot of time in order to meet that legislative deadline. 916 01:10:14,586 --> 01:10:20,146 We're going to have to go to the Board twice essentially with these designations, 917 01:10:20,146 --> 01:10:24,666 once for the designation, once for the report to legislature on the desalination in general. 918 01:10:24,736 --> 01:10:31,636 So, hear what you're saying, we'll take that comment and consider it. 919 01:10:31,706 --> 01:10:36,066 And then, you know, based on the feedback today and the written comments, 920 01:10:36,206 --> 01:10:39,396 we'll have to see what our path is as staff going forward. 921 01:10:39,506 --> 01:10:43,476 Or whether we do something uniform or we do something more site-specific. 922 01:10:54,326 --> 01:10:59,596 I should also note that, you know, I tend to lean towards site-specific because as soon 923 01:10:59,596 --> 01:11:03,966 as you come up with a uniform way doing something, somebody throws you a curve ball 924 01:11:05,036 --> 01:11:07,796 and you have to go different direction but-- 925 01:11:07,796 --> 01:11:08,956 >> Yeah, my name is Courty Bess [assumed spelling] 926 01:11:08,956 --> 01:11:10,406 and I'm with the High Plains Water District. 927 01:11:10,406 --> 01:11:12,956 And this is kind of pertains to John's question second ago. 928 01:11:12,956 --> 01:11:17,536 But, as you all sort of narrow down the specific areas where you want to study 929 01:11:17,536 --> 01:11:23,296 through the consulting process and some of the initial stakeholder input, do you ever see going 930 01:11:23,296 --> 01:11:27,456 out to these specific regions and have a more in-depth conversation or stakeholder input 931 01:11:27,456 --> 01:11:29,896 from local residence, land owners, groups, 932 01:11:29,896 --> 01:11:34,626 et cetera that have greater input before actually finalizing the study areas. 933 01:11:35,036 --> 01:11:37,066 >> At this point, no. 934 01:11:37,286 --> 01:11:43,936 Again, just the timing issue of meeting the deadline, December 1st of next year. 935 01:11:46,666 --> 01:11:51,546 So, I would, you know, since you work for groundwater district, I'm certainly counting 936 01:11:51,546 --> 01:11:58,946 on you all to bring those concerns to us or help us get the word out to your locals 937 01:11:58,946 --> 01:12:03,536 to participate or let us know what the concerns are, but we definitely want 938 01:12:03,536 --> 01:12:08,126 to hear what you say, and anything your constituents have to say. 939 01:12:08,946 --> 01:12:11,056 So, if you can help us out there, that would be great. 940 01:12:15,436 --> 01:12:15,726 Mary [laughter]? 941 01:12:16,646 --> 01:12:20,146 Sorry to keep picking on you Marie. 942 01:12:22,546 --> 01:12:23,496 Anybody else? 943 01:12:27,576 --> 01:12:32,096 Going once, going twice? 944 01:12:32,636 --> 01:12:33,086 Here we go. 945 01:12:33,966 --> 01:12:41,476 That works men. 946 01:12:41,796 --> 01:12:45,016 >> [Inaudible], Schleicher County, just interested citizen. 947 01:12:46,586 --> 01:12:53,726 Paul from Pecos was mentioning that they're injecting into water zones 948 01:12:53,726 --> 01:12:55,076 that they're also pulling out of. 949 01:12:55,326 --> 01:13:01,026 Are you all working with any other organizations and to try alleviate that, work with that, 950 01:13:01,026 --> 01:13:06,796 doing anything about it so that there's not a problem years down the road? 951 01:13:06,796 --> 01:13:09,096 >> It's not in our preview. 952 01:13:09,746 --> 01:13:15,126 It's regulated by the Railroad Commission in Texas Commission on Environmental Quality 953 01:13:15,586 --> 01:13:18,086 which we only chat with those folks from time to time, 954 01:13:18,156 --> 01:13:22,416 but they have the regulatory authority over those activities. 955 01:13:29,506 --> 01:13:29,996 There's Mary [laughs]. 956 01:13:37,946 --> 01:13:43,436 >> Did you tell us when you expect or when the due date is for the consultants 957 01:13:43,436 --> 01:13:45,066 to come back with the availability? 958 01:13:46,056 --> 01:13:46,576 >> Is that August? 959 01:13:46,576 --> 01:13:46,946 Next year. 960 01:13:47,036 --> 01:13:49,036 [ Inaudible Remark ] 961 01:13:49,056 --> 01:13:54,366 >> August 31st, 2016 and that goes around the conference. 962 01:13:54,476 --> 01:13:59,986 We are meeting it up to the conference room to determine when they want to set 963 01:13:59,986 --> 01:14:05,006 that stakeholder meeting because after that stakeholder meeting, we're going to talk 964 01:14:05,006 --> 01:14:06,576 about the proposed production areas. 965 01:14:07,276 --> 01:14:10,336 And then, we go back and prioritize those areas for them. 966 01:14:10,336 --> 01:14:20,456 And we have to turn around and do all the numerical function having the 30 967 01:14:20,636 --> 01:14:21,836 and 50 [inaudible]. 968 01:14:21,836 --> 01:14:32,406 I'm sure it will happen during the summer of 2016 [inaudible] probably later spring. 969 01:14:33,186 --> 01:14:39,046 >> So, there'll be two-- so the August 31st, 2016 date is the date that you want them 970 01:14:39,046 --> 01:14:41,626 to have already applied the 30 and 50 year. 971 01:14:42,126 --> 01:14:47,676 And so, then you're saying that they can come up with their date availability 972 01:14:47,676 --> 01:14:53,136 and have their stakeholder meeting based on their schedule and what they think in terms 973 01:14:53,136 --> 01:14:57,066 of going back and crunching numbers to meet the August 31st date. 974 01:14:57,366 --> 01:14:57,696 >> Correct. 975 01:14:58,116 --> 01:15:01,126 >> OK. And because when do you expect to take it to the Board? 976 01:15:02,346 --> 01:15:10,896 >> As soon as possible because we only got September and October basically, did you-- 977 01:15:11,246 --> 01:15:17,656 all of the functioning numbers work with Board staff and executive management. 978 01:15:17,656 --> 01:15:21,216 And there are two Board meetings, you have the brackish groundwater production zone 979 01:15:21,216 --> 01:15:24,586 designations and for the Board [inaudible] decision. 980 01:15:24,846 --> 01:15:29,176 And then, we have to put all that information into the biennial seawater report 981 01:15:29,176 --> 01:15:31,716 and that's [inaudible] legislator December 1st. 982 01:15:32,036 --> 01:15:33,886 So, we know we're getting the report off December 1st, 983 01:15:33,886 --> 01:15:37,446 you know, we just have to [inaudible]. 984 01:15:37,446 --> 01:15:43,796 >> Probably no later than early November, maybe late October. 985 01:15:43,796 --> 01:15:51,106 We want to try to ideally leave a one Board meeting between when we take it to the Board 986 01:15:51,956 --> 01:15:56,496 to give the Board the option to consider kind of hold 987 01:15:56,496 --> 01:15:58,926 and consider before they come back and make a file decision. 988 01:16:00,716 --> 01:16:04,086 So, that's why I said no later than early November. 989 01:16:04,506 --> 01:16:07,126 That means you're going to have to work on Thanksgiving week maybe [laughter]. 990 01:16:08,016 --> 01:16:11,896 But hopefully, earlier than that, right? 991 01:16:12,076 --> 01:16:12,336 Yeah? 992 01:16:12,466 --> 01:16:16,966 >> Hopefully, earlier than that. 993 01:16:17,216 --> 01:16:20,266 >> Right behind you. 994 01:16:20,266 --> 01:16:21,556 >> Jeremy White with the USGS. 995 01:16:21,556 --> 01:16:26,456 So, when you say crunching numbers, you mean running numerical models? 996 01:16:26,486 --> 01:16:30,346 >> For us, crunching numbers are-- we're asking the-- 997 01:16:30,346 --> 01:16:35,266 we don't want the consultants to give us the answer on what should 998 01:16:35,266 --> 01:16:39,696 or should not be designated as a brackish groundwater production zone. 999 01:16:39,766 --> 01:16:41,706 We want that to come from the agency. 1000 01:16:42,336 --> 01:16:49,096 And so, what we were envisioning is that the consultants do whether 1001 01:16:49,166 --> 01:16:51,956 in groundwater parlance, we call sensitivity analysis. 1002 01:16:52,106 --> 01:16:54,566 You know, basically, let's say we identify zone, 1003 01:16:54,566 --> 01:16:57,576 this looks like this could be a good zone to designate. 1004 01:16:58,226 --> 01:17:01,796 They're going to go run in different amounts of pumping which could be 1005 01:17:01,796 --> 01:17:05,286 through a numerical model or perhaps an analytical tool. 1006 01:17:05,286 --> 01:17:11,316 And then see what the impacts are on the bordering aquifers. 1007 01:17:11,456 --> 01:17:15,426 And so, we see kind of a range of numbers coming out of that. 1008 01:17:16,326 --> 01:17:23,186 And then, now, if a priori we come up with a uniform way of saying, you know, 1009 01:17:23,536 --> 01:17:27,356 not significant impacts so it'd be pretty obvious to see, you know, what that is 1010 01:17:27,356 --> 01:17:28,976 and how much pumping gets you there. 1011 01:17:30,696 --> 01:17:37,186 If we don't have a priori decision, then at that point, we can then go, you know, 1012 01:17:37,186 --> 01:17:41,286 staff working with our executive administrator and go what you want to do here, you know, 1013 01:17:41,546 --> 01:17:46,826 because it could be one-foot, two-foot, half of foot, no fourth, you know, what's the answer. 1014 01:17:47,636 --> 01:17:52,346 The other good reason I think for doing it that way is that it allows everybody 1015 01:17:52,346 --> 01:17:54,456 to see what the potential answers are. 1016 01:17:54,456 --> 01:17:58,406 And so, it isn't-- the expectations, we don't just present one number 1017 01:17:58,406 --> 01:18:02,556 but there'll be a range that, you know, if you don't like one-foot, you want two-foot, 1018 01:18:02,556 --> 01:18:05,466 you want to make that argument well then, you're going to know what that means 1019 01:18:05,466 --> 01:18:09,006 in terms of production and impacts. 1020 01:18:09,116 --> 01:18:11,686 Similarly, once the Board makes the designation, 1021 01:18:12,426 --> 01:18:15,486 that information will be part of the record if you will. 1022 01:18:16,156 --> 01:18:20,126 So, with, you know, somebody decides to take that ball and run with it. 1023 01:18:20,126 --> 01:18:25,546 And they don't like the parameters that our Board used to ultimately make the designation, 1024 01:18:25,816 --> 01:18:28,346 they can choose around if they fit. 1025 01:18:28,346 --> 01:18:32,746 So, we're talking about calculations, we're kind of talking about those types of calculations. 1026 01:18:32,746 --> 01:18:36,086 We're hoping that by the time we get something form the contractors, 1027 01:18:36,086 --> 01:18:39,056 you know, they've done the real hard work. 1028 01:18:39,056 --> 01:18:40,706 And then, we just well, I shouldn't say that. 1029 01:18:40,706 --> 01:18:43,146 They've done the easy-- they've done the hard technical work. 1030 01:18:43,146 --> 01:18:49,156 And there's going to be the hard kind of the decision work of, you know, is something-- 1031 01:18:49,766 --> 01:18:52,056 should something be designated or not. 1032 01:18:52,056 --> 01:18:55,476 >> It just sounds really aggressive to get done by August. 1033 01:18:55,476 --> 01:18:55,586 >> Yes. 1034 01:18:55,586 --> 01:18:57,186 >> I'm not interested, I'm just saying it's-- 1035 01:18:58,466 --> 01:18:58,846 >> Yes. 1036 01:18:58,846 --> 01:18:59,736 >> -- really ambitious. 1037 01:19:00,126 --> 01:19:00,356 >> Yes. 1038 01:19:01,476 --> 01:19:05,136 >> And just to follow up to that question, 1039 01:19:05,936 --> 01:19:10,796 many of these production zones do not have potential production zones, 1040 01:19:10,796 --> 01:19:15,756 do not have GUMs that available or they're imparts of the GUMs 1041 01:19:15,756 --> 01:19:17,316 that there's a lot of uncertainty. 1042 01:19:18,106 --> 01:19:24,636 Do you anticipate that the consultants will be using numerical tools 1043 01:19:24,636 --> 01:19:31,326 to do the same survey analysis and like tools, what if there are no numerical tools available, 1044 01:19:31,326 --> 01:19:36,376 do you expect the consultants to develop on numerical tool for the same survey analysis? 1045 01:19:37,436 --> 01:19:45,186 >> I think the, you know, if there's a GUM that looks like it would be a good tool 1046 01:19:45,186 --> 01:19:53,046 to evaluate impacts of pumping and brackish system on bordering, you know, 1047 01:19:53,046 --> 01:19:56,066 fresh resources then obviously that would be the tool we'd use. 1048 01:19:56,576 --> 01:20:01,056 If that doesn't exist, then we'll be looking for an analytical tool which I don't know 1049 01:20:01,056 --> 01:20:06,896 if that exists or perhaps a sample conceptual model put into the-- 1050 01:20:07,456 --> 01:20:10,716 into a numerical model to look at those impacts. 1051 01:20:11,506 --> 01:20:14,576 You know, and one of the challenges we have is, you know, 1052 01:20:14,576 --> 01:20:18,826 we don't have a lot of information in these systems. 1053 01:20:18,886 --> 01:20:25,986 I think one of the key terms is the vertical hydraulic hand activity of the confining layer 1054 01:20:27,706 --> 01:20:34,476 which you'll have to make educated, you know, kind of best educated guess on what that is, 1055 01:20:35,146 --> 01:20:37,156 and then see what the results are. 1056 01:20:38,036 --> 01:20:44,196 >> So you just mentioned that if there isn't an appropriate analytical model then you would 1057 01:20:44,196 --> 01:20:47,116 expect the consultants to develop a numerical model? 1058 01:20:47,656 --> 01:20:48,716 >> Simple numerical model. 1059 01:20:49,386 --> 01:20:56,066 We're not talking developing a GUM, but I think a simple-- so, you know, conceptual model. 1060 01:20:56,466 --> 01:21:01,366 I got an aquifer here, it's got parameters, I got a confining layer, it's got parameters, 1061 01:21:01,786 --> 01:21:04,426 I got a freshwater aquifer up here, it's got parameters. 1062 01:21:05,206 --> 01:21:10,186 Set the grid out uniformly, I know what the general thickness is, 1063 01:21:10,766 --> 01:21:15,076 set my boundary conditions, let's pump it and see what the impacts are going 1064 01:21:15,076 --> 01:21:18,726 through the confining layer, as well as up depth if that's of concern. 1065 01:21:19,516 --> 01:21:25,696 So I think that can be done pretty quickly. 1066 01:21:32,586 --> 01:21:37,366 But your model, you might disagree with me but [laughs]. 1067 01:21:37,366 --> 01:21:41,016 You know, and that's going to be one of the challenges for the consultants is that, 1068 01:21:41,016 --> 01:21:44,056 you know, how many zones do we have? 1069 01:21:44,446 --> 01:21:49,946 How much time and financial resources do we have to do these assessments? 1070 01:21:49,946 --> 01:21:55,486 So I think it will be key for us to come up with a simple way of making this analysis. 1071 01:21:55,486 --> 01:22:01,316 And in many cases, if there's not a great deal of data, probably doesn't warrant more 1072 01:22:01,316 --> 01:22:04,086 than a simple numerical representation. 1073 01:22:05,286 --> 01:22:09,916 I kind of always stunk at analytical solutions 1074 01:22:09,916 --> 01:22:12,666 so I just always want the computer models anyways but-- 1075 01:22:14,136 --> 01:22:14,996 >> Just one more follow up. 1076 01:22:14,996 --> 01:22:18,636 When you're talking about significant impacts, you're talking about water quality also? 1077 01:22:19,656 --> 01:22:26,976 >> Water quality is mentioned in the statute as something to look at. 1078 01:22:27,626 --> 01:22:32,696 And we're still kind of debating exactly what that means because generally 1079 01:22:32,696 --> 01:22:36,456 when you're producing a brackish system, you're pulling-- 1080 01:22:36,456 --> 01:22:39,866 you're going to be pulling fresh towards a pumping center. 1081 01:22:40,706 --> 01:22:48,106 And so, I would anticipate major water quality impacts on the fresh if anything is going 1082 01:22:48,106 --> 01:22:53,226 to be impacting water quality-- improving water quality on the brackish resource. 1083 01:22:53,736 --> 01:22:58,006 I suppose you could induce water level declines in your fresh aquifer 1084 01:22:58,526 --> 01:23:00,946 which then pulls water somewhere else. 1085 01:23:02,106 --> 01:23:06,796 But I would guess that if you're-- if you have that much impact in your fresh resource, 1086 01:23:06,946 --> 01:23:11,966 you've probably gone well beyond appreciable impact, what's that word, 1087 01:23:11,966 --> 01:23:13,616 significant impact at that point. 1088 01:23:13,886 --> 01:23:16,686 Let's talk a little bit internally about well, 1089 01:23:16,686 --> 01:23:21,416 does the water quality aspect relate to the brackish system itself. 1090 01:23:21,456 --> 01:23:31,336 And which is supposed it could, which is possible, but it's hard to imagine 1091 01:23:31,336 --> 01:23:37,126 that we have enough time to be stimulating those systems, let alone have the data to be able 1092 01:23:37,126 --> 01:23:41,866 to do it, so, leaning towards impacts on the freshwater resources. 1093 01:23:42,506 --> 01:23:46,726 And I think, almost by definition, they're going to be very minor if nonexistent. 1094 01:23:47,086 --> 01:23:47,796 >> OK. Thanks. 1095 01:23:56,786 --> 01:24:00,366 >> We've got 32 more minutes of fun, if-- here we go [laughs]. 1096 01:24:06,406 --> 01:24:09,526 >> I was glad to hear the mention of water quality 1097 01:24:09,646 --> 01:24:13,256 because that was something I was interested in. 1098 01:24:13,356 --> 01:24:17,896 Railroad Commission oversees groundwater-- 1099 01:24:18,246 --> 01:24:24,856 water from production, anything associated with O&G type waste. 1100 01:24:24,856 --> 01:24:27,506 And they look at like about 3000-- 1101 01:24:27,506 --> 01:24:33,016 300 TDS in the groundwater as some sort of cleanup standard. 1102 01:24:34,026 --> 01:24:38,416 TCEQ has their same water quality top standards. 1103 01:24:39,256 --> 01:24:44,396 Is there going to be an understanding with TWDB, Road Commission, TCEQ, 1104 01:24:44,396 --> 01:24:50,076 some sort of unified concept of what contaminant or waste is going to be-- 1105 01:24:50,076 --> 01:24:54,256 now that we're bringing brackish water into a useable market, 1106 01:24:54,256 --> 01:24:56,566 something that's tangible and usable. 1107 01:24:57,316 --> 01:25:03,226 Is there going to an update into understanding of what waste is or what contaminant maybe? 1108 01:25:03,226 --> 01:25:09,826 And how the agencies themselves administer or regulate that? 1109 01:25:10,106 --> 01:25:13,906 >> It's not going to be part of this project. 1110 01:25:14,186 --> 01:25:18,656 And I think what you're saying is, correct me if I'm wrong, is that, 1111 01:25:19,246 --> 01:25:22,296 let's say there's this designation, let's say at some point in the future, 1112 01:25:22,296 --> 01:25:27,096 this designation means something and somebody goes in and decides to put in well field 1113 01:25:27,096 --> 01:25:29,556 and desalt this brackish groundwater, well, 1114 01:25:29,556 --> 01:25:34,736 there's going to be a [inaudible] concentrate to dispose of. 1115 01:25:35,076 --> 01:25:39,996 This bill and this project is not looking at that disposal. 1116 01:25:40,926 --> 01:25:47,176 And so, whatever, you know, whatever the current requirements are and for municipal sourcing, 1117 01:25:47,176 --> 01:25:50,846 it would be TCEQ, you know, regulating that injection. 1118 01:25:51,486 --> 01:25:54,486 Whatever those current requirements are, I think the-- 1119 01:25:54,526 --> 01:26:01,156 looking at the injection goes beyond what we've been asked to do is this project 1120 01:26:01,156 --> 01:26:05,516 that it's clearly an issue if somebody, you know, wants to go in, in one of these zones 1121 01:26:05,516 --> 01:26:08,636 and start desalting brackish groundwater. 1122 01:26:10,176 --> 01:26:16,726 >> So you don't see any immediate change in the classification of the qualities of water 1123 01:26:16,726 --> 01:26:20,886 in the way in which they're managed. 1124 01:26:21,606 --> 01:26:26,346 >> I don't-- Yeah, I'm not aware of any changes along those lines. 1125 01:26:34,826 --> 01:26:38,376 >> Several times, you've mentioned which is completely understandable 1126 01:26:39,346 --> 01:26:43,406 that you don't have enough time to do this. 1127 01:26:43,406 --> 01:26:44,576 Sufficiently and-- 1128 01:26:44,576 --> 01:26:45,306 >> I think we have time. 1129 01:26:45,536 --> 01:26:48,786 >> -- thoroughly, not today, I'm talking about the whole thing. 1130 01:26:49,416 --> 01:27:00,536 Come November 1st, November 10th, if you're not able to complete what you need to do, 1131 01:27:00,776 --> 01:27:05,376 what are the steps to get an extension when the legislature, 1132 01:27:05,376 --> 01:27:08,916 I understand has ordered you all to do this, give you a timeline. 1133 01:27:09,456 --> 01:27:18,976 If you-- To be fair to all aquifers, people, et cetera, et cetera, to be fair to yourselves 1134 01:27:18,976 --> 01:27:23,696 and your studies, to be good studies. 1135 01:27:24,246 --> 01:27:28,926 And you need six more months to do that. 1136 01:27:29,346 --> 01:27:33,676 You have to call a special session of the legislature or what to get an extension. 1137 01:27:34,146 --> 01:27:38,636 Are you just going to say, is this all we got, but then, we all have to live 1138 01:27:38,636 --> 01:27:41,406 with what all you got that you didn't have time to complete. 1139 01:27:42,126 --> 01:27:44,606 >> I probably start by turning in my resignation [laughter]. 1140 01:27:46,176 --> 01:27:51,096 >> No, but do you, hey, is there-- do you know of a way to-- 1141 01:27:51,576 --> 01:27:58,736 >> I mean, for off, I want to be clear that we fully anticipate meeting those deadlines. 1142 01:28:00,296 --> 01:28:05,066 And we will do everything we can to meet the deadlines. 1143 01:28:05,116 --> 01:28:05,546 >> All right. 1144 01:28:06,476 --> 01:28:12,586 >> You know, if, let's just say, a thermal nuclear war with North Korea breaks 1145 01:28:12,586 --> 01:28:18,186 out then maybe we've got a good reason to go inform the legislature that, hey, 1146 01:28:18,186 --> 01:28:20,276 we're going to be a little late with this. 1147 01:28:21,406 --> 01:28:26,636 There's a-- You know, ideally, you would have a legislature change the launch, 1148 01:28:26,636 --> 01:28:27,436 change the deadline. 1149 01:28:27,436 --> 01:28:33,596 Of course, the legislature is not meeting until formally, until 2017. 1150 01:28:33,806 --> 01:28:38,686 But, you know, we have no plans to ask the legislature to have a special session 1151 01:28:38,686 --> 01:28:40,306 to change the deadline at this point. 1152 01:28:42,316 --> 01:28:47,016 And so, you know, we do feel like we can deliver a good project, we call it BRACS light. 1153 01:28:47,016 --> 01:28:54,436 You know, the BRACS project was envisioned as, you know, very detailed assessment 1154 01:28:54,436 --> 01:29:01,576 of a formation to assess communities in making decisions on, you know, what productivity 1155 01:29:01,576 --> 01:29:04,696 and what water quality might be when they go in 1156 01:29:04,696 --> 01:29:09,176 and do a brackish well field for brackish desalination. 1157 01:29:09,756 --> 01:29:13,396 HB30 is a little bit different which is, you know, 1158 01:29:13,396 --> 01:29:17,856 we're directed to define brackish groundwater production zones. 1159 01:29:18,576 --> 01:29:22,746 And so, they're, you know we don't feel like we need as detailed of information. 1160 01:29:23,366 --> 01:29:27,746 And the legislature has given us some pretty good, you know, don't go here. 1161 01:29:28,356 --> 01:29:32,506 You can look over here but definitely don't go looking over there that-- 1162 01:29:34,206 --> 01:29:36,426 to allow us to be able to do what we need to do. 1163 01:29:36,506 --> 01:29:39,876 And then we look at our potential contractors, we'll have to, you know, 1164 01:29:39,876 --> 01:29:43,716 make sure that they've got a track record of giving things done on time because this is going 1165 01:29:43,716 --> 01:29:48,326 to be one of those things where, you know, we're going to have to be on time 1166 01:29:48,526 --> 01:29:50,456 in order for us to meet our deadlines. 1167 01:29:55,486 --> 01:29:57,396 We've got question over here? 1168 01:30:05,476 --> 01:30:13,486 >> If you all designate those zones usable water, do you see that TCEQ coming back 1169 01:30:13,486 --> 01:30:20,686 and changing their depths for usable water, for casing depths. 1170 01:30:21,906 --> 01:30:24,626 >> You know, we've looked at that information. 1171 01:30:24,866 --> 01:30:27,816 >> We're talking to the Railroad Commission. 1172 01:30:27,816 --> 01:30:31,666 We've got kind of a formation group, teams [inaudible]. 1173 01:30:31,916 --> 01:30:39,266 And so we brought that up certainly to the Railroad Commission staff. 1174 01:30:39,726 --> 01:30:43,456 If we designate zone or a contractor designate some zones 1175 01:30:43,456 --> 01:30:46,446 and then kind of put some [inaudible]. 1176 01:30:46,926 --> 01:30:49,926 We've got some of the staff here today. 1177 01:30:49,926 --> 01:30:57,026 I don't think we have an answer to that right now but we're very aware of the possibility 1178 01:30:57,716 --> 01:31:06,486 that there could be some slight differences to be made. 1179 01:31:06,916 --> 01:31:10,226 [Inaudible] and trying to discuss this as [inaudible] through pipeline. 1180 01:31:10,336 --> 01:31:14,976 >> And you mentioned TCEQ but that moved couple of years go from TCEQ 1181 01:31:14,976 --> 01:31:18,256 over to Railroad Commission which is why John's referring to the Railroad Commission. 1182 01:31:20,726 --> 01:31:24,566 But we are in close communication with the surface casing folks at Railroad Commission, 1183 01:31:24,836 --> 01:31:27,736 because they've got a lot of data over there that we 1184 01:31:27,736 --> 01:31:33,206 like to get our hands before doing these mapping projects of brackish resources. 1185 01:31:40,286 --> 01:31:40,976 Anybody else? 1186 01:31:49,296 --> 01:31:57,366 Going once, going twice, going three times [laughs]. 1187 01:31:58,276 --> 01:32:03,926 Put your hand down Adam. 1188 01:32:05,436 --> 01:32:06,036 Well, very good. 1189 01:32:06,036 --> 01:32:09,926 Give yourself around of applause for great questions, 1190 01:32:10,231 --> 01:32:12,231 [ Applause ] 1191 01:32:12,446 --> 01:32:13,376 -- great comments. 1192 01:32:13,376 --> 01:32:18,006 Again, please follow up with us or if you've heard something, you know, 1193 01:32:18,036 --> 01:32:23,046 and later on you're thinking about it, shoot us an email or send us a letter, 1194 01:32:23,046 --> 01:32:26,686 however, you want to give comments to us. 1195 01:32:26,806 --> 01:32:30,356 We will be really taking a serious look at comments after this week. 1196 01:32:30,496 --> 01:32:35,166 But again, anytime the mood strikes you, give us a call or send us some notes. 1197 01:32:35,526 --> 01:32:36,946 I would love to hear what you have to say. 1198 01:32:36,976 --> 01:32:45,866 If you have data, concerns, thoughts, technical guidance for us, we would love to hear it. 1199 01:32:46,256 --> 01:32:48,986 And with that, we're adjourned. 1200 01:32:49,076 --> 01:32:49,356 Thank you.